H2O Fuel Enhancer

[hydrotinkerer]

overtaker: not really. With 7 cells the voltage drops to about 1.8v/cell. It´s a car 12V battery which really outputs about 13V. The voltage per cell is equal to the total input voltage by the number of cells. It's a very linear relation. The amperage does vary a lot depending on electrolyte concentration and type, number of plates, separation between plates, amount of electrolyte, plate surface, etc. However, I think I'm going back to 5-cell configuration, even though it uses more voltage than I really want per cell, because the 7-cell requires a very high electrolyte concentration to generate the necessary amperage, and I hate using such a caustic chemical in such high concentrations. I'd like to use less than 30% by weight as it has been suggested by many.

hydrotinkerer: the intake at the bottom doesn't work because the pressure in the electrolyzer makes the water go back to the container through the intake hose too, eliminating the circulation effect. Just by putting the output hose of the electrolyzer through a bubbler causes enough pressure in the electrolyzer to push the water in the intake back to the container, even with the intake at the bottom. Have tried that....

Any other suggestions, or corrections if I have done something wrong, are VERY welcome. For now, I'm setting up to use a pump.

Thanks for all the comments.

Once you see this design you will understand what I was trying to say, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I did not notice before that you used clear plexiglas for end caps. What are the cell measurements?

http://www.umpquaenergy.com/hydrogen.../tero_cell.pdf

[javierf]

The cell is 4" wide and 8" tall. The depth I haven't measured, but it's probably around 6".

Looking at the link you included of the "tero cell", I see mine is similar except for the fact that it's like several of those tero cells in series and the number of neutral plates is different. I'm currently testing and believe my final design will have 3 neutral plates/cell.

I see the tero cell shows the output and intake barbs at the same hight, on the top, like mine.

[hydrotinkerer]

The cell is 4" wide and 8" tall. The depth I haven't measured, but it's probably around 6".

Looking at the link you included of the "tero cell", I see mine is similar except for the fact that it's like several of those tero cells in series and the number of neutral plates is different. I'm currently testing and believe my final design will have 3 neutral plates/cell.

I see the tero cell shows the output and intake barbs at the same hight, on the top, like mine.

Right, I changed the plates themselves to have water holes at the bottom and gas holes at the top. I put gas hole at top of end plate and put water inlet at bottom of the other end plate.

[DaneDHorstead]

The cell is 4" wide and 8" tall. The depth I haven't measured, but it's probably around 6".

Looking at the link you included of the "tero cell", I see mine is similar except for the fact that it's like several of those tero cells in series and the number of neutral plates is different. I'm currently testing and believe my final design will have 3 neutral plates/cell.

I see the tero cell shows the output and intake barbs at the same hight, on the top, like mine.

javierf;

Reading the threads, I see that you were with 7, then 5, now going to 3.

Obviously, there is a reason(?)

I have gone from 3, to 5, and am considering more. Too much heat, is the reason I add more neutrals, but each time, I have to step up KOH, by a bucketload, or two.

Note my design is in an open bath, with a cap, to vent vapors.

Yours is a dry cell.

I next plan to experiment with a dry cell, but can't help wonder why you are taking the reverse route (number of neutral plates), as myself?

[Roland Jacques]

A water inlet at the bottom of the electrolyzer does in fact work good. UNLESS you are restricting (having back pressure) on the HHO gas outlet (backpressure from the extra tall bubble hoses to small for output...). You just have to have your water reservoir high enough to create more pressure on the inlet side than the pressure on the outlet side. That your bubbler water depth is creating.

My reservoir and bubbler are one in the same. The HHO inlet half way up the reservoir and at least a few inches higher than the outlet on the electrolyzer (so the HHO gas is always flowing up). That way the pressure on the water in is always higher than the HHO outlet is.

Your electrolyzer looks great. I sure would like to know the output, or better yet the MMW.

[javierf]

DaneDHorstead: actually, my testing with the neutrals has been in order to control the amperage through the amount of cells and the electrolyte concentration. The more neutrals used the higher the KOH concentration is needed to maintain the amperage. Like you said "bucketloads". Up to the 30% by weight which many people use. I would really like to use less.

My electrolyzer is rather small, measuring 4"x8". The reason for trying to keep it small is in order to be able to fit it in most small cars. I will be working on a 4"x12" for bigger vehicles once I get this one working right.

I did testing with one similar to yours on an electrolyte bath, but the container is too large to fit inside most engine compartments. If you decide on putting it in the trunk, then that'd work fine.

After building several different configurations, I think I'll go with 5 cells and 4 neutrals/cell.

Heat is definitely a problem when you try to push the generation of gas to its max. That's why I think an electrolyte flow control is absolutely necessary to keep heat down for long periods of time.

Roland: I have built a circulating system like you mention. However, haven't been able to have the electrolyte circulate fast enough. Pressures tend to level off and prevent a good circulation. However, I'll give it another try and see what happens.

Thanks guys for your comments and suggestions.

[DaneDHorstead]

DaneDHorstead: actually, my testing with the neutrals has been in order to control the amperage through the amount of cells and the electrolyte concentration. The more neutrals used the higher the KOH concentration is needed to maintain the amperage. Like you said "bucketloads". Up to the 30% by weight which many people use. I would really like to use less.

My electrolyzer is rather small, measuring 4"x8". The reason for trying to keep it small is in order to be able to fit it in most small cars. I will be working on a 4"x12" for bigger vehicles once I get this one working right.

I did testing with one similar to yours on an electrolyte bath, but the container is too large to fit inside most engine compartments. If you decide on putting it in the trunk, then that'd work fine.

After building several different configurations, I think I'll go with 5 cells and 4 neutrals/cell.

Heat is definitely a problem when you try to push the generation of gas to its max. That's why I think an electrolyte flow control is absolutely necessary to keep heat down for long periods of time.

Roland: I have built a circulating system like you mention. However, haven't been able to have the electrolyte circulate fast enough. Pressures tend to level off and prevent a good circulation. However, I'll give it another try and see what happens.

Thanks guys for your comments and suggestions.

Javierf

Consider a bilge pump, or an aquarium pump set inside a small tank, and run the vinyl hose through a small ice/water filled cooler.

For years beer miesters have been built that way, and there is no reason it wouldn't work for HHO (note the beet meister uses a hand pump, or a pressurized system).

[Haywire Haywood]

I've wondered how those aquarium pumps will take the caustic electrolyte. They aren't designed for that kind of solution.

Ian

[javierf]

Thanks for the suggestion DaneDHorstead, but I don't think the ice/water filled cooler would fit in the engine compartment, and the ice wouldn't last long It takes a while for the electrolyte to heat up, so I can do testing fine, but it wouldn't work for long trips in a car.

With respect to the aquarium pump, I tend to agree with Ian, but I did think of that and looked for one. Couldn't find one that worked with 12V anyway. Now, the bilge pump sounds like an interesting idea, will look into it. Thanks!

[Haywire Haywood]

Seems like the bilge pump would have the same problem as the aquarium pump, designed for fresh or salt water and longevity pumping KOH would be questionable. We're also talking about a total of maybe 2 gallons of fluid max, the bilge pump might be too high volume for our needs. A small pump that does 2 or 3 gallons a minute with 1/4 or 3/8 fittings would be ideal. Hard to find though.

Ian