24 plates configuration

[Q-Hack!]

The negative plate produces the hydrogen while the oxygen is produced by the positive plates.

I wonder about neutral plates, if they are used as a barrier to current flow then wouldn't they also cause voltage drop and should be calculated into the "number of plates equation"? So with 12 volts wouldn't you only use 6 plates, even with neutrals, such as +NNNN-?

It isn't the plates per se that drop the voltage, its the space in between. In a +NNNN- configuration you have 5 spaces. 12 volts divided by 5 spaces is 2.4 volts per plate. If you put the positive lead of a multimeter on the + plate and put the negitive lead on each of the other plates in turn you will see the voltage drop talked about.

ps. If you try this make sure your electrolyte is below the top of the plates. Otherwise you are just measuring the voltage of the electrolyte itself which could be anything between 0-12v.

[JonDoh]

So basically I don't need 24 plates???

Using 6 plates can produce just as much HHO gas as 24 plates by adjustng the electrolyte solution???

[DieselBurps]

Cause the system is 12V and each division group creates 6 cells, which means 2V across cells. Less heat.

Isn't the alternator kicking out closer to 14v for charging purposes? Therefore an extra plate above what you are recommending makes more sense when the vehicle is running...?

[countryboy18]

so there is a limit on how many plates can be used in a 12v system with one + and one -. right? the amps that the cell is pulling is controled by the amount of NaOH or KOH in the cell. more amp = more HHO production.

[Q-Hack!]

JohnDoh: You should still use as many plates as you can in your cell. The more surface area you can provide the better the production.

DieselBurps: You are correct. It is better to have an extra neutral if your vehicle is producing more than 12v. Mine for instance runs at about 13.5V and so I run a +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+ setup. This puts my voltage between plates at about 1.9v

countryboy18: Yes, the absolute minimum voltage required to get NaOH to produce is 1.69v. In a 12v system this would mean you would have 6 neutrals between your + and -. However, this is not the most efficient generator design. Most people find that there greatest efficiency is at about 2.0v - 2.4v . any more than that and you are wasting voltage generating heat.

[JonDoh]

^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates

Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day

ThX

Questions for Q-Hack:
1) How many LPMs are you producing?

2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

3) Are you using a PWM?

4) What is your Amp draw?

[countryboy18]

is the voltage drop affected by the plate spacing? or the amount of NaOH in the cell? if i under stand you right the best config is +NNNNNN-. that is 7 spaces for HHO production. for 2V across each plate it would have to have 14V supplied. +NNNNN- is 6 spaces and 12V for 2V each plate.
RIGHT?

[Q-Hack!]

^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates

Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day

ThX

Questions for Q-Hack:
1) How many LPMs are you producing?

2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

3) Are you using a PWM?

4) What is your Amp draw?

Answers to questions:

1) 750ml cold ~ 1LPM once it warms up to operating temps (130 degrees F)

2) I don't remember exactly... I heated my distilled water up to 130F and then started adding NaOH until I hit 18 amps. I think it is about 3-4 tsp in about 1/2 gallon of distilled water.

3) No PWM at this time. I have played with them with varying amounts of failure. I am thinking about building ridelong's design. (see his thread http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917) So far my best solution to heat is good generator design.

4) about 15 amps cold; 18-19 hot.

Mind you I copied ZeroFossilFuel's VSPB cell design to the letter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf2WdBx3tE

countryboy18: I am not convinced that plate spacing matters all that much. Some of my early designs had as much as 3/8 inch spacing and they worked ok. My current VSPB cell used zip ties to set the spacing and then removed once the marine sealant dried.

The NaOH doesn't affect the voltage drop but it does affect the current in the cell. Too much current will also heat the cell up beyond what it can handle. Hence the reason I start with the heated water and slowly add NaOH until I get the current I am looking for. I have run the cell for hours at a time now and haven't overheated yet.

[Kobudoman]

I was under the impression that the nutral plates actualy worked as if one side was posative and the other were negative. so they would produce oxy on one side and hyro on the other. Is this correct?

[countryboy18]

Yes You Are Right!!!