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Thread: 24 plates configuration

  1. #21
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    Keep in mind that the - plates produce hydrogen and the + plates produce oxygen. When you are mesuring the output of your cell you do not know what the gas is. More negative plates is better by far.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by H2OPWR View Post
    Keep in mind that the - plates produce hydrogen and the + plates produce oxygen. When you are mesuring the output of your cell you do not know what the gas is. More negative plates is better by far.

    this is what ive been saying and doing, and some on this site says it doesnt matter. i also find it produces more.
    Come to the Darkside - We have Cookies
    And lots of KOH (16 LBS)

    Not currently running HHO.
    I dont run HHO during winter.

  3. #23
    JonDoh Guest
    ok.... I havn't figured out how you guys figure out the voltage drop per plate... so.... how many volts per plate in these configurations???

    1) -nnnn++nnnn--nnnn++nnnn-

    2) -nn+ +nn- -nn+ +nn- -nn+ +nn-

    Both configs are 24 plates. #2 the blank space indicates a larger gap but connected with an SS nut.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JonDoh View Post
    until now.....
    the most plates I've use in a cell was 8 plates configured +nn--nn+
    Works flawlessly.... cool.... low amps..... but not a big producer.

    so....... I just got hold of 24 plates & have no idea how to configure this.
    I don't want to do +-+-+- etc b/c it pulls way too much current & gets too hot..... any successful suggestions from those who have experimented already.... I could possibly go up to 30 plates... please let me know....
    If I were you, (and I have already done exactly this).........

    I would set up three separate gens -NNNNN+ wired in paralell, but with separate breakers, and you should end up with an approximate 3 - 3.5 LPM (combined output) if your plates are anywhere near 12 sq in, per side (mine are 4.5 by 3, with pole plates slightly higher, for connections.)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mytoyotasucks View Post
    why do u want so many nuetrals??
    mytoyotasucks;

    He uses the number of neutrals to cut heat, and divide voltage drop to 2 volts per gap, or less.

    And he is correct about closer gaping, to increase production.

    Stan Myers, as well as Dave Lawton, both, tell us that the ideal plate gap is 0.045" which is an approximate 1.1 mm (1.1 mm is 0.0435")

    I use the 1,1 mm gap, and get very good production (1.19 to 1,23 LPM, from each of three gens.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JonDoh View Post
    ^^^^ The production(bubbles) comes from the plates and with more suface helps power distribution & keeps heat low.... ok... makes sense now.

    Alright.... I'll copy your config Q-hack with 25 plates

    Awesome guys!! I'm getting MO ed U ma kated each day

    ThX

    Questions for Q-Hack:
    1) How many LPMs are you producing?

    2) What is your electrolyte mixture?

    3) Are you using a PWM?

    4) What is your Amp draw?
    John Doe;

    I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

    What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

    "Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

    It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

    There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

    Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

    The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

    A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

    In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

    Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

    I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

    Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

    Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

    But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

    Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

    It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

    That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

    Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

    Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

    Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


    Note:

    You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.

  7. #27
    JonDoh Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DaneDHorstead View Post
    John Doe;

    What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath.
    Dane.... Thanks for the info.... I've gotten educated by what you have written.....

    I tried that config last nite since it's an easy one to do.... it totally SUX!
    It barely made bubbles! Lucky if I got .01 LPM I think too many Neutrals.
    I use the same electrolyte from my curent config (+nn--nn+) which is pushing bout 1 LPM @ 15amps

  8. #28
    countryboy18 Guest
    if some one clames 1 lpm at 15 amps they could have a great cell with no heat just production with the right # of plates or they could have a cell that runes very hot and uses the wrong # of plates. right?

  9. #29
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy18 View Post
    if some one clames 1 lpm at 15 amps they could have a great cell with no heat just production with the right # of plates or they could have a cell that runes very hot and uses the wrong # of plates. right?
    yes so far right, but u are going to have some heat any way.

    right noe i am producing 1.2 LPM at 18 - 21 amps and a lot of heat - 145 deg F
    Come to the Darkside - We have Cookies
    And lots of KOH (16 LBS)

    Not currently running HHO.
    I dont run HHO during winter.

  10. #30
    countryboy18 Guest
    is the only way to get away from creating heat is to add N plates? so you end up with 2v at each cell.

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