24 plates configuration

[mytoyotasucks]

is the only way to get away from creating heat is to add N plates? so you end up with 2v at each cell.

u can always run lower amps.

but i ran -n+n- and got more heat but way more production.

im still working on mine.

[ShowMeHHO]

Answers to questions:

1) 750ml cold ~ 1LPM once it warms up to operating temps (130 degrees F)

2) I don't remember exactly... I heated my distilled water up to 130F and then started adding NaOH until I hit 18 amps. I think it is about 3-4 tsp in about 1/2 gallon of distilled water.

3) No PWM at this time. I have played with them with varying amounts of failure. I am thinking about building ridelong's design. (see his thread http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=917) So far my best solution to heat is good generator design.

4) about 15 amps cold; 18-19 hot.

Mind you I copied ZeroFossilFuel's VSPB cell design to the letter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBf2WdBx3tE

countryboy18: I am not convinced that plate spacing matters all that much. Some of my early designs had as much as 3/8 inch spacing and they worked ok. My current VSPB cell used zip ties to set the spacing and then removed once the marine sealant dried.

The NaOH doesn't affect the voltage drop but it does affect the current in the cell. Too much current will also heat the cell up beyond what it can handle. Hence the reason I start with the heated water and slowly add NaOH until I get the current I am looking for. I have run the cell for hours at a time now and haven't overheated yet.

Do you have your cell wraped ?

[josejosecr]

I have 8 plates 2" X 6" and 7 of 1/4" (2" x 2")spacers, can anybody tell me if there is any video that can help me to do the connection of +, - and N ?
I need to know how to do the configuration of +NN-+NN-.
Tks

[mytoyotasucks]

I have 8 plates 2" X 6" and 7 of 1/4" (2" x 2")spacers, can anybody tell me if there is any video that can help me to do the connection of +, - and N ?
I need to know how to do the configuration of +NN-+NN-.
Tks

u would better to -NN++NN-
and N's arnt wired, just +'s -'s are.

and it would work better +NNNNN-

[josejosecr]

Thanks for your prompt response. I did it as you suggested and is working fine, Now i am preparing 2 more sets. Let see how all connected in series work.

[mytoyotasucks]

Thanks for your prompt response. I did it as you suggested and is working fine, Now i am preparing 2 more sets. Let see how all connected in series work.

I put two in a parallel and didnt work that great.

U dont want to put that cell design (+NNNNN-), u would be running the cells at to low of volts.

so far my best cell is +NNN-, still trying to make others work.

dont forget to wrap ur cells.

see here for wraping http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1077

[sima.z]

John Doe;

I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

"Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


Note:

You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.

Great reply for all of us that in the learning process, .
so please what do you think of my configuration??
-NNN+NNN- , I use 304 not 316 ss 5x5" plates (imposible to find 316 in this country in S.A.)
with 1/8 gap within cell (Dry cell), and I get 1/2 LPM at 8-10 amps, low heat

I will apreciate your advise thanks
sima.z@hotmail.com

[mike915]

If I were you, (and I have already done exactly this).........

I would set up three separate gens -NNNNN+ wired in paralell, but with separate breakers, and you should end up with an approximate 3 - 3.5 LPM (combined output) if your plates are anywhere near 12 sq in, per side (mine are 4.5 by 3, with pole plates slightly higher, for connections.)

What do you mean whit separate breakers??how?
could you explain me please??

[lhazleton]

Ben,
Nice diagram. Very clear and easy to understand!
This should help the newbs quite a bit.

[H20-HHO]

John Doe;

I think you are getting a grasp on it, but I also think you are a little lost, in the definition of a cell.

What is generally shown as +NNNNN-NNNNN+ is in actuality two cells, in one canister, or bath. The voltage drop, is divided between the number of gaps between "each positive, and each negative". The above symbols show a common negative, the negative pole has zero volts, as any voltage that might have been present is dissipated to ground. But in fact it is two cells, in one bath (or it would also be in a dry cell, set up).

"Cell" is a word that is bantered about, way too loosely!

It is used to describe the generator as a whole, the gap between plates, and the plate configuration, between a positive and a negative pole, regardless if neutrals are used, or not!

There are 12 volts in (if bench tested from a battery, or a charger), or an approximate 14 volts, if an alternator is present. Testing at a bench with 12 volts, can sometimes not provide enough current, to produce, but the extra 2 volts gained from the alternator can make a difference. Although you are better of to build a cell design that produces with 12 volts, but will put out a little more heat with 14 volt input.

Ideally, you need volt drop to be as close as possible to 2 volts, per gap, but not under 1.5 volts, as all production, would be lost.

The division of those volts (work), is equally spread from full voltage (input), to zero volts at the negative pole. Thus a three plate -N+, would drop 14 v to 7 v, to 0 v (a seven volt drop per gap). this would get very hot, very quickly, as any voltage drop over 2 volts, goes to wasted heat (not to production).

A seven gap 14 (+) 12 10 8 6 4 2 0(-) would ideally drop 2 volts per gap, but most folks prefer a six gap (or slightly less).

In the above display, numbers 12 to 2 represent neutral plates.

Gap is essential to production, closser gap is better, but it produces more heat. Neutral plates use magnetic induction (EMF), and the closer you hold magnets to each other (but not touching), the more they react to each other (attaracting, and repelling)

I underline "and", because there is no end to the line of people that will tell you, the cathode plates (negative sides) do nothing for production. But plain and simple, they are full of crap!

Hydrogen is "repulsed" at the negative (cathode) side, or cathode pole plate.

Folks also will tell you that the positive pole produces oxygen (and to some small degree they are correct). In fact, oxygen is released (again through repulsion), at the positive pole. But in fact oxygen is a positively charged atom, which by laws of physics, repells from a positive pole. (opposites attract, likes repell).

But, because oxygen is given off at the positive pole, most people don't understand that it is a repullsed action (or do they care, as long as they get HHO)

Metal (steel) is attracted to the positive side of a magnet, and the negative side of the same magnet is ignorred, but take two negative sides of a magnet, and force them together.

It is that very principle, that lifts a monorail train from the track, and allows it to be moved with even the slightest of side pressure. (just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it is not working).

That being said, I would again have you look at +NNNNN-NNNNN+, and say that you have been told to use more negatives, than positives. which is perhaps theoreticly true, but is also negated in the fact that the hydrogen atom is 1/16 the size of the oxygen, and even at the 2:1 ratio, there only needs to be 1/8 the surface area for hydrogen to repell from.

Further, I believe I read where some one said you don't want more oxygen atoms, than hydrogen atoms.

Anyway you look at it, removing one atom from water (regardless of which one, it is), automaticly releases the other two atoms, as well!

Water, only has one composition, 2 parts hydrogen, and one part oxygen. Release any one of the three, and the water molecule, is dissassotiated!


Note:

You will see many people report better production with lower concentrations of KOH, or NaOH, even as low as 1 tsp per gallon distilled.

Hi all! I have built 3 wet cell units, the first was +nn nn nn nn- with 304 ss plates and dabbled with vinegar,baking soda and caustic soda (seperately that is) in a pvc pipe canister.Result= no real output but pvc softened and collapsed..(2) +nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+ again with pvc canister which melted again(fool lol) tought it was the cells that did it but it was the enguine temp.(3)+nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+ with a 2.5ltr acrylic container bath and it was making a decent amount of hho but shortly after I realised I may as well have put it in a strainer as the only thing making the bubbles in the bubbler was the oxygen, the hydrogen was sneaking out the back door lol. The lesson I have learned is Drycell all the way.Now working on a drycell -nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn- 3mm butyl with EPMD 200x200x10mm wide seals,316 ss 2mm thick 200x200mm plates..pwm 150amp continious auto sencing an a 100amp continious relay..what do ye think as I will have it built in two weeks???