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Thread: Separate H & O? Will it make difference?

  1. #11
    PAPAFIXIT Guest

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    That would be one smokin' Honda.

  2. #12
    RMForbes Guest

    Default Separating H2 from O2

    This is possible and is what is done for commercial hydrogen production but it requires higher energy input for a lower output. For our purposes of increasing fuel economy, I believe this would be conterproductive. Wiser people than I have concluded that the reason that HHO works is that it is not only adding fuel to the engine but it also increases the efficiency of the primary fuel combustion. Both H2 and O2 are factors in increasing this efficiency gain. The hydrogen ignites very quickly, up to 12 times faster than the primary fuel and as it burns it ignites the primary fuel from all sides at once. This causes a nearly simultaneous ignition of the primary fuel which allows for much faster more complete burn creating higher pressures and more power. But for this to work properly additional oxygen is needed to combust with both the hydrogen and primary fuel. Without this extra oxygen the hydrogen would consume some of O2 coming from the air intake to combust and would lower the O2 available for combusting the primary fuel and could actually lower the efficiency. Conversely, adding just more oxygen may increase the power output but not the efficiency, more fuel will be added by the engine control computer because it senses unburnt O2 in exhaust.
    Last edited by RMForbes; 07-09-2008 at 11:32 PM.

  3. #13
    SmoothCowboy Guest

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    So could you take that design and adjust the hydrogen to oxygen? Not just eliminating the oxygen available but adjusting it's supply to best suit your situation?

  4. Default

    The problem with adding more O2 is that the cars ECU senses the extra oxygen and responds by increasing the fuel to the cylinder because it thinks its running lean. The best possible method to control this is by getting a special program for your ECU that compensates for the added "fuels". It could get expensive, but a performance shop that has a dyno tester could do this for you.
    2006 Ram, 5.9 cummins HO. 4 cell design, 1.5 [email protected], 24.3 MPG

  5. #15

    Default

    I'll have my h2 only gen done by the end of the week. I separated the anode and cathode with a fiberglass barrier. Then I ran separate outlets for o2 and h2.

  6. #16
    PAPAFIXIT Guest

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    I worked on this theory for about 3 very frustrating weeks, I finally realized that when you seperate the H from the O they both rise together. I ultimatly gave up and got drunk.
    ---------
    Life is an ongoing learning process, when we cease to learn we cease to exist.

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PAPAFIXIT View Post
    I worked on this theory for about 3 very frustrating weeks, I finally realized that when you seperate the H from the O they both rise together. I ultimatly gave up and got drunk.
    ---------
    Life is an ongoing learning process, when we cease to learn we cease to exist.
    You have to have the divider completely solid at the top to keep h2 and o from mixing together.

  8. #18
    coffeeachiever Guest

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    IMHO, I don't think seperating the gases will trick the O2 sensors. You will still be getting a more complete burn and cleaner exhaust.
    Putting pure O2 into your intake was covered in another thread. I believe it was determined that it would increase heat to a dangerous level.
    I'm not saying it's not a good idea to seperate the gases, cause I don't know. The guy that reportedly runs his motorcycle off nothing but HHO does it with electromagnets, but he vents off his O2 and doesn't use it at all. He also has had to retard his timing.

    It is now 12/23/08 and I have modified my opinion on this. I am beginning experiments on seperating the gasses to see what is possible.
    Last edited by coffeeachiever; 12-24-2008 at 02:20 PM. Reason: new theory

  9. #19
    h2gen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbhavsar View Post
    I am thinking about separating Hydrogen and Oxygen using an H shape PVC Pipe housing (please click on attached drawing); the idea is to pass Oxygen only to the Air/Filter Intake and Hydrogen to Engine. I would like to ask experts, will this make any positive improvements compare to passing both together (HHO gas).

    Yes, the device you are proposing was invented by William Nicholson (1753-1815) - it's a good idea A better design is the filter-press electrolyzer invented in the early 1900's, it uses a porous diaphragm between steel plates that lets ions go through but not gas bubbles (usually asbestos cloth, which may be hard to find now).

    What you can actually do is supply the air intake with hydrogen, and vent out the oxygen. The main advantage is that using H2 alone will not require you to buy an EFIE and mess around with the oxygen sensor in the electronic injection of your car.
    Cheers,
    h2gen

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhavsar View Post
    The air around us is about 21 percent oxygen. Almost all the rest is nitrogen, which is inert when it runs through the engine. The oxygen controls how much gasoline an engine can burn. The ratio of gas to oxygen is about 1:14 -- for each gram of gasoline that burns, the engine needs about 14 grams of oxygen. The engine can burn no more gas than the amount of oxygen allows. Any extra fuel would come out of the exhaust pipe unburned.

    So if the car used pure oxygen, it would be inhaling 100 percent oxygen instead of 21 percent oxygen, or about five times more oxygen. This would mean that it could burn about five times more fuel. And that would mean about five times more horsepower. So a 100-horsepower engine would become a 500-horsepower engine!

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/oxygen-engine.htm
    Wow! This is so incorrect, it is... wow!

    If you were able to get 100% burn on the fuel, you would only see a few percentage points increase in horsepower. Engines are, by there very nature, inefficient beasts. All engines are different, but in general, 80% of the energy is lost as heat 20% goes to the wheels. If you increase the oxygen to burn all the fuel, you still need to account for heat loss. Using your numbers 100-21=79*.2=15.8% increase in horsepower. So, theoretically, a 100 horsepower engine would become a 115.8 horsepower engine.
    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling that Orwell was an optimist!

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