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Thread: Separate H & O? Will it make difference?

  1. #21
    h2gen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbhavsar View Post
    I am thinking about separating Hydrogen and Oxygen using an H shape PVC Pipe housing (please click on attached drawing); the idea is to pass Oxygen only to the Air/Filter Intake and Hydrogen to Engine. I would like to ask experts, will this make any positive improvements compare to passing both together (HHO gas).
    You may be interested in this link:
    http://peoplesnewenergy.com/home

    Still a bit expensive though - hope to see some cheaper (but still as efficient) design out soon, hopefully on ebay!

  2. #22
    coffeeachiever Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by h2gen View Post
    You may be interested in this link:
    http://peoplesnewenergy.com/home

    Still a bit expensive though - hope to see some cheaper (but still as efficient) design out soon, hopefully on ebay!

    That's not efficient. That unit is only producing around 0.375 lpm of HHO. Then when you take out the O2 your only getting about 0.25 lpm of H. Very unimpressive. It's a pretty unit though.

  3. #23

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    Here is a link to a small cell that separates h from the o. It is used in a small toy car. While small if you could incorporate its positive attributes into a larger unit.

    http://store.horizonfuelcell.com/pem...of-10-uni.html

    Someone on another forum has disassembled one so you can see how the inner cell is put together. Startes about reply #36.


    http://www.hydroxyhut.com/index.php/topic,152.30.html

  4. #24
    coffeeachiever Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrotinkerer View Post
    Here is a link to a small cell that separates h from the o. It is used in a small toy car. While small if you could incorporate its positive attributes into a larger unit.

    http://store.horizonfuelcell.com/pem...of-10-uni.html

    Someone on another forum has disassembled one so you can see how the inner cell is put together. Startes about reply #36.


    http://www.hydroxyhut.com/index.php/topic,152.30.html
    That's pretty neat. I hope the guy does build a large scale version of it. It will certainly be interesting to see how well it works.

  5. #25
    coffeeachiever Guest

    Default Peliminary Test

    The first test is very encouraging. As the neomydmium magnets' delivery has been delayed due to the holidays, I went and bought a cheap pair or speakers to get their magnets. These magnets are only 20 oz and not very strong, but I just wanted to see if the theory was plausible. It is.

    I disconnected the HHO line from my intake and put it into a 5 gallon bucket of water with a bubbler stone on the end. The small bubbles were coming out so fast the water was churning and I couldn't see sphit. I disconnected all but two of my plates and left four neutrals inbetween. It still bubbled too fast to do anything beneath the surface of the water(at least visibly).

    I then halfway submerged the magnets to see what would happen with the bubbles on top. This is where it got a little exciting. Many of the bubbles deviated from their straight path accross the top of the water and curved toward the magnets. Eureka! This just might work!

    As of now I don't expect the neodymium magnets in until Monday or Tuesday. I will get everything set up for testing between now and then.
    Last edited by coffeeachiever; 01-02-2009 at 08:07 PM.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbhavsar View Post
    The air around us is about 21 percent oxygen. Almost all the rest is nitrogen, which is inert when it runs through the engine. The oxygen controls how much gasoline an engine can burn. The ratio of gas to oxygen is about 1:14 -- for each gram of gasoline that burns, the engine needs about 14 grams of oxygen. The engine can burn no more gas than the amount of oxygen allows. Any extra fuel would come out of the exhaust pipe unburned.

    So if the car used pure oxygen, it would be inhaling 100 percent oxygen instead of 21 percent oxygen, or about five times more oxygen. This would mean that it could burn about five times more fuel. And that would mean about five times more horsepower. So a 100-horsepower engine would become a 500-horsepower engine!

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/oxygen-engine.htm
    Tushar;

    As I understand it, the hydrogen atom is approx 1/14 the size of the oxygen atom, with a 2:1 proportion in number.....

    If a sive (a very fine mesh) is set up, allowing the tiny atoms to pass, but not the larger atoms, limiting the available space for the mixed vapors to accumulate, would force the smaller atoms to pass through the sive,

    Perhaps "sive" is not the word to use, but it is a filter of types that does not allow the larger oxygen atoms to pass, but the limited space available would force the smaller, more numerous atoms through it.

    I believe you are correct, in the asumption that elimination of the oxygen atoms, will eliminate the need to alter the o2 sensor.... Or will it?

    Adding pure hydrogen, will still cause the flame to burn hotter, consuming more of the gasoline mixture. Will the altered oxygen level be changed by adding pure hydrogen?

    Perhaps, it will be!
    For larger photos of offerings see:
    http://shuttermotor.tripod.com/id12.html

  7. Default O2 filter

    This is an interesting thread. Has anyone proven that using only H2 eliminates the need the fool around with an efie/map adjuster?

    We use H2 purifiers at work (semi conductor fabrication). I spoke with a rep of the manufacturer, Johnson Matthey. They make an inline O2 removing purifier (see the attached pdf). The smaller ones would fit nicely under the hood of a car. After explaining what I was up to he told me that their filter would not work. It is designed to remove 2 or 3 ppm trace oxygen from 99.999% pure hydrogen in gas cylinders. A purifier to filter out the oxygen from an electrolysis unit would need to be the size of a house.
    Red Rat

  8. Default o2 filter

    The attachment was too big and did not work last post...

    here is the url.

    http://www.pureguard.net/html/all_data_sheets_link.html
    Red Rat

  9. #29
    SmartScarecrow Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by redrat100 View Post
    This is an interesting thread. Has anyone proven that using only H2 eliminates the need the fool around with an efie/map adjuster?

    We use H2 purifiers at work (semi conductor fabrication). I spoke with a rep of the manufacturer, Johnson Matthey. They make an inline O2 removing purifier (see the attached pdf). The smaller ones would fit nicely under the hood of a car. After explaining what I was up to he told me that their filter would not work. It is designed to remove 2 or 3 ppm trace oxygen from 99.999% pure hydrogen in gas cylinders. A purifier to filter out the oxygen from an electrolysis unit would need to be the size of a house.

    its just my opinion based on observation and I have no science to back it up, but I think fooling around with efie's and such is pretty pointless under any circumstances ...

    separating the O's and H's using magnets will sort of work ... you have to do it quickly right after the are split from solution as they will very quickly bond up with other atoms to get stable ... the O's will join up and become O2's and the H's will join up and become H2's ... this makes them electrically and magnetically pretty close to neutral so once they get to that point, you will have a really hard time influencing them even with very strong magnets ...

    I have seen a number of designs similar to what folks are calling a "dry cell" that use specially shaped gasket that do a pretty good job of separating the gases right as they get buoyant and start to float off the plates ... the O's are going be forming up on the positive plate and the H's are going to be forming up on the negative plate ...

    so if you are really crafty how you shape your gaskets and provide two channels for the gases to follow, you can separate the gases pretty effectively ... it wont be 100%, but close enough for most work ... if you were then planning to compress and store the H2, you would want to run it through a material that had a fast oxidizing material in it, probably a ferrous compound so the oxygen left would have something to bind to and be removed from the hydrogen prior to storage ....

    as far as I can tell, the only really, really compelling reason I would want to separate the gases would be for the purpose of compressing and storing ... maybe I make a lot of gas via solar, store it, and burn stored gas after sun down ... something similar to this is being worked on ... there are many who want off the grid and this method shows some promise ... but its not perfect and is indeed less efficient and more costly than just making HHO and burning it as you make it ...

  10. #30

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    I am skeptical about separating the gasses to make things easier on the ECU front, I don't think the extra O2 that is being seen is a result of the O we supply along with the H, more the product of more complete combustion lowering the nasties in the exhaust which gets it's place taken by atmosphere.

    I did experiment a short while ago with using magnets themselves as the electrodes. Needless to say, the magnets probably wouldn't last in a permanent implementation, however, the interesting point is that if you oriented the poles a certain way ( I can't remember which without digging out my post ) the H and O bubbles were repelled away from each other and away from the electrodes.
    2006 Dodge Ram 4.7L - 16.5 mpg stock
    My thread Painless Experiment in HHO

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