Wideband Efie

[hydrotinkerer]

Hygear, I guess if your not in the "know" hard data escapes some people. I have customers that come in the shop just as unreasonable.

narrow band .1 - 1volt range right?
wide and afr 0 - 5volt range right?

Just pick a late model dodge p/u(for example on previous post) look up code #172 and GEE to my surprise it gave the voltage range of the o2 at 2.5 to 3.4. How you came up with wierd voltage, different wire combo's still does't change the obvious. Thats the data that came off two differet versions of alldata.

I have looked at the data on my scanner and it gave the higher voltage.

One version of alldata called them narrow band. When you went in and looked at the troubleshooting tree the voltages didn't match narrowband.

[hygear]

On Mitchell, it calls all 4 sensors narrowband. A good way to find out is to watch the current flowing from the sensor. the PCM uses current instead of voltage.

Well I guess the jury is still out on this,because Allprodata and Mitchell have conflicting conclusions on which type Dodge uses.
Does anyone know someone that's a tech or that works at a Dodge dealership that can confirm which type I accually have?I've tried to call before to get info and was turned down.
I know some of you guys think the voltages are weird but you have to remember I'm not an isolated case.As I've stated I've found 5 or 6 others with the same truck and motor and we all can't have weird trucks.Our voltages are almost identical and at least 2 of them have tried to install standard efies with both having the same results,didn't work.
It'll be interesting to say the least to see how this is going to pan out in the end.

[Painless]

I'll get under my 2006 4.7 ram Monday or Tuesday and see what my O2 is doing. The service manual say 0.1-1.0v, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

[hydrotinkerer]

On Mitchell, it calls all 4 sensors narrowband. A good way to find out is to watch the current flowing from the sensor. the PCM uses current instead of voltage.

Since when do you measure current and not voltage out of an o2 sensor?? Are you talking about the heater circuit? What is the output of an o2 sensors current? 20-30amps

[hygear]

I'll get under my 2006 4.7 ram Monday or Tuesday and see what my O2 is doing. The service manual say 0.1-1.0v, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Thanks for helping out Painless post us the results.

[Jaxom]

Does anyone know someone that's a tech or that works at a Dodge dealership that can confirm which type I accually have?

I just talked to my best friend Robbie...he's a tech at the local Dodge place (Locklear Chyrs.-Jeep-Dodge.) He tells me that these trucks use a narrowband O2 which has a 2.5v bias voltage on the sensor reference. The 2.5-3.5v reading is really just a 0-1v range with a 2.5v bias.

If your output voltage is fluctuating up and down very quickly, that's another indication of a narrowband sensor. Widebands don't "switch" back and forth the way narrowband sensors do.....they have a relatively stable output. Also, Keith is right about the price...wideband O2s are expensive.

[hydrotinkerer]

IF that was the case then your 2.5 bias + 1volt(maximum o2 voltage)=3.5 volts. Still doesn't come close to the 5volts that sensor is capable of putting out. Where does that extra voltage come from? His pockets?

[hydrotinkerer]

You guys keep screaming in everyones ears they are narrowband. So what!, Then answer why they don't work with narrow band EFIE's. When your dealing with a sensor that works on 0-5 volts. These people don't care about voltage's or what kind of sensor. They just want their hard earned money and results. When some one comes up with a o2 sensor enhancer that works on higher voltage then there's no problem. Instead of looking at the code I gave, You ask someone that in all probability didn't have a clue. Instead they tell you all have narrowband sensors in camo. Good answer.

[Jaxom]

Actually I have looked at the DTC chart, and nowhere does it say "wideband sensor." 5v is not within the sensor's output range, it's a pullup voltage applied to the signal circuit by the PCM. The chart specifically says that operating voltage should be between 2.5 and 3.4v. It will only read 5v when the sensor is either cold or disconnected. Once the sensor warms up, if the voltage does not drop the sensor is considered bad. This is mentioned in the heater circuit test step of the procedure. You should really read and understand something before you try to quote it as evidence against somebody.

Narrowband EFIEs won't work in this case because they are specifically designed to output 0-1v. If you designed a narrowband EFIE that allowed for the bias voltage, it would work.
"Higher voltage" is not the only issue with building a wideband EFIE. If it was that simple it would be on the market already. A wideband also has a different (non-pulsing, higher definition, and inverted) response curve. That means the whole circuit would have to be designed from scratch. That's not likely to be done by a company because it would only be applicable to a few specific vehicles...the potential sales for a make-specific unit wouldn't justify the costs to design and market it.

I'll be sure to tell Robbie how you feel about him. Being a UTI graduate and professional tech, I think he'll be quite offended.

Any more questions?

[hygear]

[quote=hygear;13373]Okay went and got new meter,engine running for 30 min.and ground wire run dircectly from the battery.So here are the voltages I got,Btw I have meter set to 20vdc.
1)white wire # 1 4.64-5.35 bouncing
2)white wire # 2 0.06 steady
3)gray wire 2.58 steady
4)black wire 2.64-3.25 bouncing


I guess that would be my pocket,the first wire I tested the other day had between 4.64 and 5.35 and was not steady was bouncing back and forth.And with the engine not running,cold,ignition on and sensor unplugged its a steady 7vdc.
Btw for what it's worth the sensors I bought several weeks ago from the Dodge dealer were $57.59 each.