Chasing The White Rabbit Down The Hhole

[Bill Bailey]

FONT="Arial"][/FONT]

CHASING THE WHITE RABBIT down the HHOLE sounds a little bit strange , but that is how I now feel after reviewing the results of the tests a couple of friends of mine and myself are conducting . Please keep in mind that this is all anecdotal, as most of our findings are and I invite you to do them your self before you tell me that it doesn’t work.

It all started with a revelation bordering on blasphemy to me that we (collectively) have
all been spending thousands of hours and big money trying to make the onboard computer in our car do things that it is trying tooth and nail NOT TO DO.

It’s the O in the HHO that is the problem. The car sees to much O and it’s GAME ON.
We put in a bigger cell with twice the production and the computer try’s to do its thing and maintain the 14 to 1 ratio it was programmed for, so it pumps in more fuel to keep
It’s default setting. We are all aware of this situation aren’t we? So then off we go to bye the latest gismo to fool it. But it don’t fool to easy do it. LOL

One day, I thought to myself, I seas self, what would happen if I was to restrict the air flow into the motor. What would the computer see? How much power and performance would I loose? Will it DAMAGE the motor .?????.

I assumed that the motor would see les air and therefore les oxygen and oblige me by reducing the amount of fuel to the motor and it may or may not make the car slower or sluggish. But the main thing is it would still try and maintain it’s 14 to 1 ratio which means that it should not harm the motor.

So without further ado, a slit was cut in the side of the air inlet hose connecting the air filter to the motor and a length of flat plate inserted.
The car was left as it had been before the experiment started. ½ Lt a min. HOD on / Gismos on / just like it was on its last run which usually meant 24 mpg.

Results 18 mpg …….. ok don’t panic all Gismos off and pull the fuse on the computer so it can go to default.

Result 31 mpg …….OK ……Now pull out the plait and round off the end so it fits better and stops up more of the inlet and try again.

Result 37 mpg ……….BU…R ????????? OK now lets get real series about this.
Take out the small HOD and stick in the SMACH BOOSTER. Now we will see something..

RESULT 18 mpg Thank you Mr. smack booster …….If it hadn’t bean for you we wouldn’t have realized just how critical the introduction of oxygen into the mix is.

This is almost a side issue BUT there wear no perceived changes in performance of the car. We have come to the conclusion that a car is designed with certain performance
Parameters and if you are performing far below its MAX then you will not see a difference. A different story if you won’t to leave rubber …..But then you wouldn’t be interested in saving petrol anyway.

This is why all of those small / hardly anything coming out w4g cells would give a good
Result But when I replaced them with my NEW … ALL SINGING ….ALL DANSING
Cells which produce 1 Lt in 27 seconds, didn’t live up to there IMAGEND POTENTIAL

The tests are continuing and I think we should split this post in 2 so we can discuss the maximum hho in a car and what we found out about reducing the amount of air through the motor

As it is quite obvious that we have ALL bean chasing the white rabbit … but I don’t think we will ever catch him with the BIGGER IS BETTER approach ….. do you ????????.

I will just be out side digging a hole to hide in to save me from the flack. LOL

[Roland Jacques]

Im not sure I follow you.

Are you testing what happens if you restricting air intake? (if so by how much) Can you try to clear up the testing and results?

What's HOD?

[Bill Bailey]

Sorry to be so vague mate, So much to say .... so bad at typing lol

Hear are a couple of posts from the w4g forum where the boys are giving it a try. I hope this helps.

Dave,
Congratulations on your 27.21% gain by restricting the air.... Nice going there!

I have been experimenting also with restricting airflow and varying hho production on my 2003 Chev Venture 3.4 L. All enhansers turned off... No EFIE, IAT, CTS, MAF or MAP

Below are my results, every run 40 miles, at 55 mph, fillup same pump to top of filler pipe.

First run: nothing running at all , no restriction of air = 27.27 mpg
Second run: Just the HOD running = 30.89 mpg
Third run: HOD (.5 LPM) running and air flow restricted about 80% = 32.45 mpg
Fourth run: 2 HOD cells (.5 LPM and 1.7 LPM = 2.2 LPM) running and air flow restricted more to about 88 to 90% = 27.14 mpg
Fifth run: Back to smaller cell only running .5 LPM and airflow restricted as in fourth run = 34.16 mpg

Running the .5 LPM HOD and restricting the air flow gave me 25.27 % increase in mileage..... not bad! Now to see if this is consistent, as northing I have done before has been.....

Ted


--- On Sun, 9/21/08, dave geert wrote:

From: dave geert
Subject: [Water4Gas] results 99' 5.7 ltr suburban
To: Water4Gas@yahoogrou ps.com
Received: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:43 AM

No sensor adjustments made , Air filter 96% blocked and an hho cell attached pulling 10 amps.

I have been Fucking with adjustments on this car for a year and twice i have seen numbers like this.
average MPG = 14.7 tonight i filled up and MPG was 18.7.
blocked filter IS the key!

I also found out after i filled up tonight that my hho cell line was missing the tension clamp and was leaking, so this was not a perfect test but still improved .

I'll let you know how much the hose clamp helps .

The only change is the weather and A/C off , its been cooler this fill up...

dave g

[HiTechRedNeck73]

now this is confirmation of an idea I've been thinking about... in stead of using efie and other control devices that are fooling the ECU (can't be used anyway here in CA because we have rules about tampering with emission controls), you restrict the air flow coming into the engine by blocking a % of the inlet before the throttle body... that would reduce the air coming in, and the result would be less o2 in the exhaust...

and according to the results above... we've all been dumping in too much HHO, too much fuel, and too much air - and we've still been seeing gains... you need to keep adjusting and playing with combinations to find the sweat spot, so to say...

now that gives me an idea for a device that could be an adjustable diaphragm that can mount in the intake tube between the filter and throttle body and can be adjusted to restrict the air flow and reduce the injection of gasoline into the engine...

[Bill Bailey]

Hi RED HI HYGEAR
This is my take on the situation. If we have a dash mounted ajustement hear
we are going to play with it , Wright, Human nature. And I see a situation were we are trying to find the " sweat spot " But the motor has
just moved it because of our last adjustment. Which will end up in a circular
argument with the fool thing , and for shore we will give it to many adjustments for it to cope with ...... that is when the trouble will start.

SO ..... I have come up with a shape / design / thing that we can install
and then forget all about . but it will just sit there saving you money.
But NO.... you wont be able to fiddle with it lol

The shape is called a VENTURI and has bean around as long as sin , but
by using it in this position , we not only cause a restriction in the air inlet,
we also have the perfect spot to introduce a vacuum.......That we can use to draw our hho into the motor.
And this low pressure area or vacuum is influenced by the rpm of the motor.

At low speed .... so is the vacuum but as the motor starts to rev the
air passing through the venturi creates a stronger vacuum. This is the ideal spot for your HOD connection.

This is still a work in progres so results will be a bit slow , as it is happening over 3 countries Aust. USA and Canada.
Finding the restriction (sweat spot) size will take some trial and error,
so be pashent and you will get it. lol In the mean time I am posting 5 photos for you to get the feel of the thing. They say a picture saves a
thousand words.

PS This development is stage one ..... there is another stage after this one LOL
Enjoy.

[Roland Jacques]

Sorry, I’m a little slow here. This is very interesting and I’m still trying to understand this a little better. Can you help me fill in some of these blanks? This may be helpful to many people Thanks.

1. Car model and year------------------------------ ___________
2 LPM of HHO your unit produces------------------- ___________
3. Baseline MPG------------------------------------ ___________ HHO or EFIEs off
4. MPG with HHO on-------------------------------- ___________ EFIEs off
5. MPG with EFIEs on------------------------------- ___________ HHO off
6. MPG with HHO & EFIEs on------------------------ ___________
7. What percentage of air restriction are you doing? - ___________
8. MPG with air restriction on------------------------ ___________ HHO and EFIEs off
9. MPG with air restriction & HHO on----------------- ___________ EFIEs off
10. MPG with air restriction & EFIEs on--------------- ___________ HHO off
11. MPG with air restriction & HHO & EFIEs on-------- ___________

[hygear]

I see what you mean Bill no fiddling with that being etched in glass,or is that acrylic.You just have to swipe more of Mamas wine glasses If you need a different size venturi LOL.That also might work as a water vapor atomizer(just a thought)being as it will decrease pressure and increase velocity of the air flow.
When you get a chance Roland's questions have my interest as well.
Don't forget to post the data,this thread has my attention.

[Bill Bailey]

Roland ... What can I say

Perhaps .... would you like chips and a Coke with your order sir ???????
I thought that I made it clear that this is a NEW CONSEPT which I am
bringing before this forum . I DONT have all of the answers yet. I thought it was too important to try and do on my own , so hear it is in its infancy
with lots of room for us ALL to contribute. If you just want to sit back and
weight until all of the work is done and then decide weather you will be
bothered giving it a try , Then watch this space " -----------------
------------------------------------------------------------------- " !!!.
If on the other hand you want to be involved in something new that has
some great potential , Then welcome aboard , how can I help .

A friend of mine who watches all of the other groups out there told me this morning that it is now the hot topic in 7 other forums, and that interest is spreading expidentially.

He seas that " of course " there is the usual smattering of cereal fantasists
and arm chair experts and knockers , but it is being picked up by a lot of guys who can see that " if it works" it will answer a whole lot of the problems they are facing trying to introduce HHO into their fuel supply WITHOUT triggering an adverse reaction from there motor control systems.

So what can I say. Make one your self. Try it. Tell us how you
did it and how it performed. Isn't that what this forum is all about.???
Relax .... No body is trying to SELL you anything.

[precaster1@msn.com]

To avoid another blast like that,I think I prefer to not make any more posts and just sit back and collect the mail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm with you lowgear- instead of taking the heat I'll just watch too. At least you tried, the chart would have made it simple. And we still don't know what a HOD is.

[HiTechRedNeck73]

wow, let's just let that smoke clear for a moment...

if we want to talk like we're helping people, we should be willing to share info rather than everyone starting from scratch and not getting anywhere...

he was merely asking what the test data has been so far...

there were going to be some blanks, of course... but that was no reason to submarine the guy... he and a few others have a general concept and yet no place to begin. if I had a working system in my car, I'd get the info out there so maybe someone that has a bit more foresight than myself could lend a wise word or two... I consider myself a pretty bright guy, and I had to read the misaligned gibberish that started this thread several times before I was able to fully understand what it was that you were doing... sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to see a better picture...

even yourself, you could possibly benefit from putting all your data on a paper in front of you, organized... you may see something you missed that would knock this whole idea wide open...

well, enough of all that...

here is my view on the subject, hopefully it helps someone...

I have been studying hydrogen production for about 3mo now... one of the first questions I asked of a few people was why they were adding all that fuel and air if hydrogen is truly 3x more energy than a comparable volume of gasoline, then we are adding too much of everything... by my calcs, I should be able to run my 2004 Dodge Intrepid SE 2.7L v6 with <1lpm of only hydrogen and mix it with the appropriate amount of oxygen to get the same bang that I get with gasoline now, but with no gasoline at all...

now I know that modifications need be made to the engine to complete that task... but I believe it is possible without modifications if the engine is setup right as a stock engine. my v6 has a higher compression ratio than most cars out on the road... that makes for a good start considering hydrogen works better in a higher compression ratio (so I've been told)... so we need to find the ratio that makes hydrogen replace gas... I've not found this number anywhere... my 2.7 is going to be different then someone's 5.0, and even different years of my 2.7 may be different...

I am still running some numbers and look forward to testing it out. heck, I look forward to building my hydrogen device... I'm almost ready to start buying parts... I've been refining my design, and have a great tool to bench test with... I'm going to use my power supply from my CB radio... it can supply 12-15volts and adjust from 0-35amps... a perfect bench tool to test a h-device (IMO). well, I plan on joining all the fun brigade very soon, and plan to share what I learn...

so, take it for what you will, I plan on contributing, but first I want to say thanks, publicly... if some of you were to not share as much, I would not have my eye on a goal of a working system the first time out... I'd be testing, and testing, and may have even given up before finding enough answers to keep marching on... we all need more contributors... that's the only way we will over come the problems before us and able to help those behind us...

just my $.02