Chasing The White Rabbit Down The Hhole

[Bill Bailey]

FONT="Arial"][/FONT]

CHASING THE WHITE RABBIT down the HHOLE sounds a little bit strange , but that is how I now feel after reviewing the results of the tests a couple of friends of mine and myself are conducting . Please keep in mind that this is all anecdotal, as most of our findings are and I invite you to do them your self before you tell me that it doesn’t work.

It all started with a revelation bordering on blasphemy to me that we (collectively) have
all been spending thousands of hours and big money trying to make the onboard computer in our car do things that it is trying tooth and nail NOT TO DO.

It’s the O in the HHO that is the problem. The car sees to much O and it’s GAME ON.
We put in a bigger cell with twice the production and the computer try’s to do its thing and maintain the 14 to 1 ratio it was programmed for, so it pumps in more fuel to keep
It’s default setting. We are all aware of this situation aren’t we? So then off we go to bye the latest gismo to fool it. But it don’t fool to easy do it. LOL

One day, I thought to myself, I seas self, what would happen if I was to restrict the air flow into the motor. What would the computer see? How much power and performance would I loose? Will it DAMAGE the motor .?????.

I assumed that the motor would see les air and therefore les oxygen and oblige me by reducing the amount of fuel to the motor and it may or may not make the car slower or sluggish. But the main thing is it would still try and maintain it’s 14 to 1 ratio which means that it should not harm the motor.

So without further ado, a slit was cut in the side of the air inlet hose connecting the air filter to the motor and a length of flat plate inserted.
The car was left as it had been before the experiment started. ½ Lt a min. HOD on / Gismos on / just like it was on its last run which usually meant 24 mpg.

Results 18 mpg …….. ok don’t panic all Gismos off and pull the fuse on the computer so it can go to default.

Result 31 mpg …….OK ……Now pull out the plait and round off the end so it fits better and stops up more of the inlet and try again.

Result 37 mpg ……….BU…R ????????? OK now lets get real series about this.
Take out the small HOD and stick in the SMACH BOOSTER. Now we will see something..

RESULT 18 mpg Thank you Mr. smack booster …….If it hadn’t bean for you we wouldn’t have realized just how critical the introduction of oxygen into the mix is.

This is almost a side issue BUT there wear no perceived changes in performance of the car. We have come to the conclusion that a car is designed with certain performance
Parameters and if you are performing far below its MAX then you will not see a difference. A different story if you won’t to leave rubber …..But then you wouldn’t be interested in saving petrol anyway.

This is why all of those small / hardly anything coming out w4g cells would give a good
Result But when I replaced them with my NEW … ALL SINGING ….ALL DANSING
Cells which produce 1 Lt in 27 seconds, didn’t live up to there IMAGEND POTENTIAL

The tests are continuing and I think we should split this post in 2 so we can discuss the maximum hho in a car and what we found out about reducing the amount of air through the motor

As it is quite obvious that we have ALL bean chasing the white rabbit … but I don’t think we will ever catch him with the BIGGER IS BETTER approach ….. do you ????????.

I will just be out side digging a hole to hide in to save me from the flack. LOL

[Roland Jacques]

Im not sure I follow you.

Are you testing what happens if you restricting air intake? (if so by how much) Can you try to clear up the testing and results?

What's HOD?

[Bill Bailey]

Sorry to be so vague mate, So much to say .... so bad at typing lol

Hear are a couple of posts from the w4g forum where the boys are giving it a try. I hope this helps.

Dave,
Congratulations on your 27.21% gain by restricting the air.... Nice going there!

I have been experimenting also with restricting airflow and varying hho production on my 2003 Chev Venture 3.4 L. All enhansers turned off... No EFIE, IAT, CTS, MAF or MAP

Below are my results, every run 40 miles, at 55 mph, fillup same pump to top of filler pipe.

First run: nothing running at all , no restriction of air = 27.27 mpg
Second run: Just the HOD running = 30.89 mpg
Third run: HOD (.5 LPM) running and air flow restricted about 80% = 32.45 mpg
Fourth run: 2 HOD cells (.5 LPM and 1.7 LPM = 2.2 LPM) running and air flow restricted more to about 88 to 90% = 27.14 mpg
Fifth run: Back to smaller cell only running .5 LPM and airflow restricted as in fourth run = 34.16 mpg

Running the .5 LPM HOD and restricting the air flow gave me 25.27 % increase in mileage..... not bad! Now to see if this is consistent, as northing I have done before has been.....

Ted


--- On Sun, 9/21/08, dave geert wrote:

From: dave geert
Subject: [Water4Gas] results 99' 5.7 ltr suburban
To: Water4Gas@yahoogrou ps.com
Received: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:43 AM

No sensor adjustments made , Air filter 96% blocked and an hho cell attached pulling 10 amps.

I have been Fucking with adjustments on this car for a year and twice i have seen numbers like this.
average MPG = 14.7 tonight i filled up and MPG was 18.7.
blocked filter IS the key!

I also found out after i filled up tonight that my hho cell line was missing the tension clamp and was leaking, so this was not a perfect test but still improved .

I'll let you know how much the hose clamp helps .

The only change is the weather and A/C off , its been cooler this fill up...

dave g

[HiTechRedNeck73]

now this is confirmation of an idea I've been thinking about... in stead of using efie and other control devices that are fooling the ECU (can't be used anyway here in CA because we have rules about tampering with emission controls), you restrict the air flow coming into the engine by blocking a % of the inlet before the throttle body... that would reduce the air coming in, and the result would be less o2 in the exhaust...

and according to the results above... we've all been dumping in too much HHO, too much fuel, and too much air - and we've still been seeing gains... you need to keep adjusting and playing with combinations to find the sweat spot, so to say...

now that gives me an idea for a device that could be an adjustable diaphragm that can mount in the intake tube between the filter and throttle body and can be adjusted to restrict the air flow and reduce the injection of gasoline into the engine...

[Boltazar]

now that gives me an idea for a device that could be an adjustable diaphragm that can mount in the intake tube between the filter and throttle body and can be adjusted to restrict the air flow and reduce the injection of gasoline into the engine



How about a gate valve on the air intake

[Stevo]

Like an extra throttle body in a way. This could definitely work.

[Scooterdog]

now this is confirmation of an idea I've been thinking about... in stead of using efie and other control devices that are fooling the ECU (can't be used anyway here in CA because we have rules about tampering with emission controls), you restrict the air flow coming into the engine by blocking a % of the inlet before the throttle body... that would reduce the air coming in, and the result would be less o2 in the exhaust...
and according to the results above... we've all been dumping in too much HHO, too much fuel, and too much air - and we've still been seeing gains... you need to keep adjusting and playing with combinations to find the sweat spot, so to say...

now that gives me an idea for a device that could be an adjustable diaphragm that can mount in the intake tube between the filter and throttle body and can be adjusted to restrict the air flow and reduce the injection of gasoline into the engine...

WTF????? Better piss test whoever told you to restrict the incomming air. That's insane!

You ever heard of a turbo? What happens? You force more AIR into the system, increase mileage and power.

You can restrict all the AIR you want, but you won't restrict the o2, it just doesn't work that way. Not only that, the poor engine is going to have to work harder to "suck" in the same amount of air. This is going to cause a power loss, heat, and your milage is going to plummit. Dont' do that! Use a little common sense for god's sake.

How would you perform if I took out one of your lungs? Think you could get around easier? Be nice to your vehicle, it will be nice to you.

[resago]

WTF????? Better piss test whoever told you to restrict the incomming air. That's insane!

You ever heard of a turbo? What happens? You force more AIR into the system, increase mileage and power.

You can restrict all the AIR you want, but you won't restrict the o2, it just doesn't work that way. Not only that, the poor engine is going to have to work harder to "suck" in the same amount of air. This is going to cause a power loss, heat, and your milage is going to plummit. Dont' do that! Use a little common sense for god's sake.

How would you perform if I took out one of your lungs? Think you could get around easier? Be nice to your vehicle, it will be nice to you.

If you were breathing pure O2, one lung would do you just fine.dumba**.

[Cadillac]

You ever heard of a turbo? What happens? You force more AIR into the system, increase mileage and power.

How would you perform if I took out one of your lungs? Think you could get around easier? Be nice to your vehicle, it will be nice to you.

I am not sure where you heard that a turbocharger added mileage but this is wrong in every aspect. One of the biggest concerns of adding a turbocharger is getting enough gas to match the denser air. Whether you use an extra fuel pump with a boost sensitive fuel pressure regulator, extra injectors, or reprogram the computer for larger injectors you have to increase the fuel that can be delivered. That being said a car with a turbocharger does not have to be a gas hog. If it is done properly the amount you will use will be minimual unless you are accelerating hard.

Cars take advantage of what is know as the Helmholtz resonance. This is just one aspect of a venturi. When the intake valve opens it sucks in the air. When it closes the air coming down still has momentum and this causes the air to compress. This area is high pressure. The upper portion of the intake manifold is low pressure. The pressures attempt to equalizes but there is not enough time to do so. This is a pressure differential. That is what an internal combustion engine is all about.

For most cars when the intake valve opens and shuts is based on the RPMs. This means it can not take full advantage of the helmholtz resonance effect on air. Instead of trying to take full advantage most designers make intake manifolds that take advantage of it in certain rpm ranges. Now there are a lot of cars with VVT (or VTEC for you Honda guys) that have been offering cars that can take further advantage of this effect. There are also cars out on the market although rare that have variable intake runners to take advantage of this effect as well. A good example of this is the Cadillac Catera and 03 CTS. Both have what is coined as dual ram intake valves. In actuality it is changing the distance the air travels to take advantage of the helmholtz resonance. More simplistic as they only change the distance with gear changes. Both of these cars are know to create boost conditions with no forced induction systems such as a super/or/turbocharger. I say this just to show how strong this effect can be.

Now by restricting the intake you are in essence changing where the power rpm range is in the intake manifold by reducing the VE. While I don't necessarily agree with just blocking it without further knowledge of what you are doing just calling someone stupid for trying it is not cool. There was a sensor used sparingly called a VAF (volumetric air flow) sensor. Most of these blocked the intake tube. They where spring loaded. As there airflow increased they opened more. They had a spring hooked to a potentiometer that then relayed an electronic signal back to the computer. Hard to believe the designers over at BMW are dumb for restricting an intake tube. If I remember right these where offered on their M-series of cars (for a time) which are not know for being weak in design or acceleration.

[Bill Bailey]

Hi RED HI HYGEAR
This is my take on the situation. If we have a dash mounted ajustement hear
we are going to play with it , Wright, Human nature. And I see a situation were we are trying to find the " sweat spot " But the motor has
just moved it because of our last adjustment. Which will end up in a circular
argument with the fool thing , and for shore we will give it to many adjustments for it to cope with ...... that is when the trouble will start.

SO ..... I have come up with a shape / design / thing that we can install
and then forget all about . but it will just sit there saving you money.
But NO.... you wont be able to fiddle with it lol

The shape is called a VENTURI and has bean around as long as sin , but
by using it in this position , we not only cause a restriction in the air inlet,
we also have the perfect spot to introduce a vacuum.......That we can use to draw our hho into the motor.
And this low pressure area or vacuum is influenced by the rpm of the motor.

At low speed .... so is the vacuum but as the motor starts to rev the
air passing through the venturi creates a stronger vacuum. This is the ideal spot for your HOD connection.

This is still a work in progres so results will be a bit slow , as it is happening over 3 countries Aust. USA and Canada.
Finding the restriction (sweat spot) size will take some trial and error,
so be pashent and you will get it. lol In the mean time I am posting 5 photos for you to get the feel of the thing. They say a picture saves a
thousand words.

PS This development is stage one ..... there is another stage after this one LOL
Enjoy.