Chasing The White Rabbit Down The Hhole

[Bill Bailey]

Hi Roland
I agree with all 3 points. Let me deal with point 1 last and start with
2 This will in dead cause a considerable vacuum in the HHO cell.
There mas bean a lot said about the prows and cons of this issue and this is only my take on the mater. I personally don't believe that a vacuum will give
you more production . How can it, It is an electrical proses and I don't think sucking on it will make the atoms move any faster. lol But I like to run a
vacuum to all of my cells for 2 reasons. 1 if there are any leaks in the cell
then running it in a vacuum means the leak is INTO the cell and not out of it. 2 This is a HOD system , at any given moment there is only a small amount of hho in the system and running a vacuum ensures that it is all going into the motor and not pooling anywhere else.

3 This restriction does seam to fool the computer into thinking it is at a higher altitude and therefore reduce the fuel. As to why and how ??? I will leave to much smarter minds than mine to nut out. lol

1 As you say , it will lower the compression but I believe it will only be felt
or noticed if the car is approaching the top end of its performance curve.
Let me ramble on hear and tell you why I think this.

Way back in am silly days (1973) I got involved in a fringe sport called Bath Tub Racing. Sounds quite silly and probably started out that way, but by the time I got involved it was a very strongly contested sport in dead. With
very stringent rules enforced by non smiling scrutineers and all.
Long story short every body was limited to 6 hp motors, Which at the time was Evinrude-Johnson-Mercury. And when you consider that OMC
made the first 2 and the only difference was the point and the transfers,
then you can see that we were all preity equally matched.
UNTIL Mercury came out with a new range of small hp motors.
6 hp 7.5 hp 10 hp That was it game over you just couldn't catch
the new Merck's, It was all the same motor. To make the 3 different models they had just placed a plate with a smaller hole under the carburetor to DE tune it. We were trying to keep up with a 10 hp motor
at 3/4 throttle and that was imposable. once you took out the restricted plate it was once again a 10 hp .
So all the way through is throttle range it handled like a 10 and it wasn't until it got to its top end and ran out of air it thought it was a 10 hp.

The same thing will happen in the car. you shouldn't notice any difference
unless you push it real hard and that is when you will notice it just wont quite do what it did.
But we are concerned with economy and not flat out performance.
I hope this was of some help.

[precaster1@msn.com]

Makes sense to me but does a ecu go by air pressure, air volume or air speed? Maybe all of the above indeed.

[Roland Jacques]

Wow, Bill that is an awesome explanation. Very informative, Thank you

I'll be making a point to insure a negative pressure on my HOD installs.

I’ll be testing this further. Do you have the links to the other threads on this subject?

I’ve heard of De-tuning but never really knew what it meant. As to the rest here’s my guess (maybe some one smarter will help me out).
I’m guessing that the restriction is keeping the MAP sensor thinking the engine is at idle, all the time. Manifold vac is 28-29HG when at idle, and normally decreases to 15 hg or so at cursing, and less vac at acceleration. With this restriction the VAC probably stays around 28 hg Vac at most all RPMS. IF the MAP sensor also controls the ignition timing, it would keep the timing from advancing. This would be a huge benefit IMO, because I believe with the addition of HHO we should have substantial timing retarding for the engine to see maximuim benifit of HHO, and this might be accomplishing that also.

I’m still thinking out loud. I think one thing may be concluded so far. That is, we may only want to restrict the intake to the point of 28 HG (Idle vac) at cruse speed. (1500 -2000 RPMs or so depending on the car). That way we still may keep some top end. Not too much restriction not too little.


I totally laughing at the thought of men racing bathtubs with outboards on them

[Stevo]

IF the MAP sensor also controls the ignition timing, it would keep the timing from advancing.

MAP sensor signal can affect ignition timing and so can these:

MAF (Mass Air Flow)
IAT (Intake Air Temperature)
TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)

Changes in these also can affect how much and how often the IACV (Idle Air Control Valve) works as well.

I would say that IF you have one (Tornado Fuel Saver). Then this will definitely restrict some airflow and I would actually promote using this to try to achieve the restriction effect.

[precaster1@msn.com]

I'm thinking if its sucking that much harder thru a small section of filter it will suck in bigger dirt particles than it should.

[countryboy18]

that's the good thing about old cars that don't have a computer telling the engine what to do just more gas more speed. easy stuff nothing to trick to make it think something else!

[Bill Bailey]

Thanks Roland
This is a link..... to the other forum that Bob Foreman and I suggested this idea to .http://www.water4ga sforum.com/ Topic4493- 5-8.aspx >.

It was first posted on the 24/8/08 and has had 4,700 views and 82 replies
as of this morning, this has broken the record for views on this forum which
was 3,600 and it has bean running since 2/08.
There have bean 2 radio interviews on the subject which lasted about 19
minutes each. you will find the links to them in the body of the replies.

it is in General discussions under " No more FOOLING THE COMPUTER "

Enjoy By the way thinking about bath tub raising has started to bring it all back to me lol lol So I googled it and guess what, They are still at it lol.
I will include a few photos I found so you can try ti imagine what it is like to be siting in a flimsy hull ( usually 1 layer of 250 gsm chopped strand mat) at 34 mph , off shore in 20' swells with a 4' chop running across it
in the freezing cold while it feels like somebody is hitting you with a stick. lol lol lol.
Definitely for staunch harts or weak minds. I think I am the later.

[Bill Bailey]

God job Hi gear
That's the way to go , Just jump in and Block the sucker up a bit and see how your car responds. Just a few thoughts on the subject first.

When you tape - or stick something over the inlet hole to the motor, That the air will RUSH past this obstruction and then find itself in a space much bIger than the inlet you just partially blocked. What will happen next is the air will start to tumble, trying to fill the bigger space. This is called TERBULANCE and can cause the air to dam up. this is probably what happened to you mate.

When you use a VENTURI the air compresses slightly and accelerates through the gap and then decelerates at the same rate as it entered, Thats why its the same shape front and back, which will stop this happening.

Also this means that you can reduce the in-flow more., As more air will pass through the VENTURI than the taped up box.

If any body out there has a background in aerodinamic , Just feal free to jump in hear at any time. LOL LOL

My suggestions for a successful test.!!!!

NUMBER ONE Shut down all the devises you have bean using to fool the computer, and re-set the computer, by taking out it's fuse or disconnecting one of the battery leads. This will reset your computer to its default position.
Tape up your hole or insert a plate or what ever you wear going to do .

Start the motor and turn on your HHO cell . Give it a moment or two for
the computer to get its legs under it, and decide that theas are the conditions that prevailed in the place , and then start to drive normally.

Its no good holding back at this point , that wont be a real test, Just drive as you usually do until you fill up next.

IF it feels bad, then just stop and open the obstruction more until it is handling as usual.

At the next fill up tell us how much it saved you , and then try and sell
all of your now usless add on equipment. LOL LOL LOL

Happy savings. Please excuse me atrocious spelling ,

IT has bean a long long time since school. Lyall

[Bill Bailey]

This just came in. I thought you may be interested

Hello Robert,
> How are you?
>
> A friend of mine tired blocking off his air intake and it worked, he is now getting 50% better mileage!
>
> We installed a booster and he tried the map knob and then bought a scangauge and tried disconnecting the oxy sensor and clear the code, and he was so frustrated. He ws not getting any difference in preformance or mpg savings nothing. See photo.

> He has a MAF maybe it only works with MAF's ? ?

I have a OBDI truck I will try it on it. I will go listen to James Robey's interview now.

See your blog talk radio interview is working!

Keep up the good works.

Andrew

--

Hydrogen Garage LLC
630 Quintana Road #125
Morro Bay, CAlifornia • 93442
Hydrogen Garage Store
(805) 995-2669


AND MAYBE IT WORKS ON EVERY THING lol

[precaster1@msn.com]

What do you think of doing that on a duramax Bill?