Water Injection Thread

[spicerman]

Roland...
my pickup weights 5000 LBS I'm sure thats far less then your "Tanker Truck" Hauling all that water around has to be a killer!!!
I think your 100% water to fuel ratio is a little steep! The manual I have From George Wiseman @ Eagle-research.com says that 50% can be attained but that's with burning the heavy oils (like factory or ships use ...Industrial types where the oils are so heavy that at room temps they become like tar)

The old carburetor engines were easy to play with. You could do what you wanted and just adjust the mixture with a screw driver. But now with the ECU's and o2 sensors and computer logic its hard to tweek it! IE: You add water, the computer sees more o2 and adds more fuel. Thats were the EFIEs and the soft flashing of the computers comes in.
George Wiseman says.. start at 10% and stop adding when you stop seeing gains. He also states that the more HHO you use , the more water you can introduce. also 1 LPM of HHO can make a difference in MPG. Too much can bring you down as well. That's why every HHO install has to be tuned for the optimum MPG. But George doesnt say whats too much, except...."when you stop seeing gain.

I wish I had a DYNO I could answer a lot of questions fast!!

[spicerman]

LIVEHHO...
NO, I had 1 LPM HHO , Volo FS-2 and 1 OZ PMin. water injection. at the time. But now I've changed the water into steam Inj. For my truck (5.7) .75 OZPM would be 10%

[livehho]

I dont think Hydro lock is an issue for any ICE at these very low rates. theoretically a 2 liter engine at 10 : 1 compression ratio should be able to take about 0.2 liters of non compressibles per revolution for it to hydro lock. That would be 140 liters per minute or 8400 LPH.

I didn't know those numbers. They are comforting to say the least. So I guess the big problem is not the qty of water injected while engine is running but making sure no water gets into the engine while it is shut off. I don't see a problem with WVI or WI, but with 'steam' it's a different story.. the damn thing will still be hot and produce steam after the engine is shut off. that would take some tinkering of course. In one of you previous posts you mentioned that you got consistent results in restricting the air in the intake. Well I just did that in the morning and will see how it goes. I shrinked it from 3" to 1" (Helz's cone funnel idea) and took a ride to see if I noticed any lack of power. It ran great, I didn't feel no HP loss at all. My engine is 2.4L, 4 cyl, stock.


Air restriction cone

back side


I've got my HHO setup ready to install but I'll wait and install the WVI first. Still don't know if I'll go with steam or cold water vapor. I got some 50' of 5/16 of copper tubing so I guess I'll do some testing and will see. Here is my HHO setup, I think I will add another bubbler when I install it in the car.

[Helz_McFugly]

Helz,
You could upsize the intake hose dia. to get a bigger venturi and have you tried upping the iso mix to see if you get more MPG gains.
Is your iso/water feed adjustable and how much LPH?

Im not sure about upsizing the intake hose would make the venturi larger. I could jsut scoot the cone back if I wanted it bigger.
yes I have messed with the iso/water ration. right now im running 1:3 methonol/water.

Im working on a system that uses a cold water vaporizer that i had in my attick. Im going to remove my airbox and put the device in ints place. It will pull about 12vdc/2amp. Im going to remove the a/c motor thats in it now and use a windshield wiper motor and some coggs to get it turning fast. Its that kind of cold water vaporizers that has a little 1/4 shaft that spinns in the water and spins the water up the small shaft and it cones out at the top and flinging the water to a mesh type grate that also spins with it thats about 3" in diameter that atomizes the water and also acts as a fan to eject the atomized water. Im going to alter it where it doesnt eject the water. it jsut creats a void of air that is full of atomized water in that space then add an air intake on one side that has a 3" hose with a K&N filter on it and on the other side the hose that goes to the throttle body. I can get a 3" intake hose at autozone. I can put a 24 ohm resister in my MAF sensors plug to bypass it so I wont have a MAF any longer. while im on that subject, you can go to radio shack and get a 24 or 25 ohm resister and put it in the MAF plug as a jumper if its a 2 wire plug like i have. I got 2MPG gain by doing that when I first got my car. let me check to see if it is 24 or 25 ohms before anyone goes and buys one. or you can buy both and give them a try. they are cheap enough. you shouldnt get a check engine light either way. Ill draw up a diagram of what I have planned.

These things work great too but they use alot of current. The one in this vid uses about 180 watts. this one is a 10 head unit. the 10 head unit ran off 36vdc/5amps and has an output of 3000 ml/hour. still pretty cool. Its a fountain fogger. The red light you see in the box are the led lights that come on these things. you can find them on ebay.

[redrat100]

what about using those ultrasonic mist devices?

Copied from my post on 10-09-09 from the "Maybe It's The Steam?" thread:
""This is how I got a 5.5% mpg increase (2.0 VW Jetta). I took a fogger like these http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html. It makes "cold" steam with ultrasonics and about 1.5 amp current draw. I built a tank using 2 inch plastic piping. It does require 24 vac. A cigarete lighter inverter for a laptop is adequate to power it. The fog is ducted to a fitting just before the throttle body, same place I had my HHO going. No efie, map tweeker or any other ecu mods. No c.e.l. lights either. Also, I added an air scoop in front of the radiator to pressurize the tank. This also behaved like a speed regulator. Idling at a stop light only engine vacuum was drawing in the fog. But in traffic airflow through the tank increased with speed. I also had a patent search done. They discovered that this fogger water vapor injection was patented in 1997, number 5671701. It describes exactly what some of us have been doing. US patents are good for 20 years. So, it won't be public domain intil 2017.""

Pictures are below.

IMHO, the direction Steve O, Helz and other are going is the right way to go. It is simpler and cheaper. The ultra sonic mister method is a bit pricier but much more maintenance intensive. After a few hundred miles the mister quits working. I guess they were not made to run under the hood of a car. After my last mister gives up I will pull out the system and build a simpler venturi bubbler unit.
__________________

[redrat100]

I have a couple of aircraft instrument venturis left over from a project. Here is a source if anyone is interested in getting one: http://www.aircraftspruce.com. With a little tweeking the 2 inch one will fit inside the intake duct on my Jetta. It comes with a 1/8 female NPT port. Perfect for connecting a WVI bubbler to.

[Roland Jacques]

Roland...
my pickup weights 5000 LBS I'm sure thats far less then your "Tanker Truck" Hauling all that water around has to be a killer!!!
I think your 100% water to fuel ratio is a little steep! The manual I have From George Wiseman @ Eagle-research.com says that 50% can be attained but that's with burning the heavy oils (like factory or ships use ...Industrial types where the oils are so heavy that at room temps they become like tar)

The old carburetor engines were easy to play with. You could do what you wanted and just adjust the mixture with a screw driver. But now with the ECU's and o2 sensors and computer logic its hard to tweek it! IE: You add water, the computer sees more o2 and adds more fuel. Thats were the EFIEs and the soft flashing of the computers comes in.
George Wiseman says.. start at 10% and stop adding when you stop seeing gains. He also states that the more HHO you use , the more water you can introduce. also 1 LPM of HHO can make a difference in MPG. Too much can bring you down as well. That's why every HHO install has to be tuned for the optimum MPG. But George doesnt say whats too much, except...."when you stop seeing gain.

I wish I had a DYNO I could answer a lot of questions fast!!

I did not even know that George played with WI, good to know.

My 9500 lb er get about the same MPG with 2400 lbs of water or not .

The ProScan Tool has a virtual Dyno that can be helpful. I just got this last week i wish i had not of waited so long to get it, great tool.
http://www.myscantool.com/details.html

I've read that Rally racer use to use 50% WI in the 1950s. but I believe the super heated steam angle is a bit different. Ive heard of ratios with super heated steam of 3 water 1 diesel, Equaling 75% reduction in fuel use, or 300% increase in MPG. Don't no if it true but it worth being able to test it.

[Roland Jacques]

The ultra sonic mister method is a bit pricier but much more maintenance intensive. After a few hundred miles the mister quits working. I guess they were not made to run under the hood of a car. After my last mister gives up I will pull out the system and build a simpler venturi bubbler unit.
__________________

I used those USmisters for reptiles and they did not last long ether

edit; they ran 24/7 for a few weeks before they quit.

[Stevo]

Unhooked my system this weekend. Filled up today and I'm back to getting the typical 28 MPG suck mileage.

[spicerman]

Roland...
That scantool looks like a nice toy. Thanks for the link.
I spent $100 bucks last week at walmart and bought a code reader. The scantool looks a lot better. I was in a hurry to get my truck back on the road.

How does that virtual dyno work? Does it give you freeze frame, on the road data?? The code reader that I bought does that but only with a trouble code

what gears do you have in your truck?? My diff. has 3.7 My dad had a 3/4 ton chev with a 454 in it with 4.11 gears. He got 9 MPG running empty or pulling his 27 FT camper.....????