Water Injection Thread

[hhonewbie]

The throttle body *is* the venturi. It is the variable choke point of the entire intake system. Air moves quickest through the throttle body thus the air pressure inside is lowest which makes any ports attached to that area draw air in.

But are you getting good vacuum under load through entire acceleration?

[Stevo]

But are you getting good vacuum under load through entire acceleration?

Yes, better than you will get from any other vacuum source on your engine.

[Owen_]

Think of how a carburetor works. In fact a carb form a junk yard could be added to your injection engine. (just fill it with water, not gas)

the biggest problem with carburetors works (for fuel or water), is that the draw, from vacuum, isn't even threw all engine speeds. So to get even fuel mixture (or proportional water flow) the something needs to change with engine speed, idealy that would be the orifice the fuel/water flows threw. There have been many complicated carbs made with ventureis that alter size and what not.

I'm thinking that the ideal water injection method would be more like a fuel injector. maybe even just using a fuel injector (or a few) in the intake, and using the signal from the fuel injectors to control it. This way your not excessively cooling your engine when it goes into DFCO.

[Stevo]

Think of how a carburetor works. In fact a carb form a junk yard could be added to your injection engine. (just fill it with water, not gas)

the biggest problem with carburetors works (for fuel or water), is that the draw, from vacuum, isn't even threw all engine speeds. So to get even fuel mixture (or proportional water flow) the something needs to change with engine speed, idealy that would be the orifice the fuel/water flows threw. There have been many complicated carbs made with ventureis that alter size and what not.

I'm thinking that the ideal water injection method would be more like a fuel injector. maybe even just using a fuel injector (or a few) in the intake, and using the signal from the fuel injectors to control it. This way your not excessively cooling your engine when it goes into DFCO.

Sorry, I don't recognize the abbreviation DFCO. What is that? Fuel injectors can easily fail if they push water through for any extended period of time. That's why we have products like HEAT (to get the water out). If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure WVI won't be "over-cooling" the engine at any point. If someone could build a system that *can* indeed provide the possibility of "over-cooling", I would love to see it.

If you have to add a device to the system that draws power from the alternator or battery in order to inject water, then what is the point other than anti-detonation and in that case what is wrong with your naturally aspirated engine that you have to now *inject* water. Water injection is what that would be. Seems that power driven systems might work best if the engine's fuel map has been altered to run stoich or lean first.

Adding a spring action butterfly valve to an over-sized vacuum port might work well. So might an additional port with a check valve that has a high cracking point.

[livehho]

Is this dude injecting LIQUID water into the TB?

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Sim...20Langwell.pdf

I thought we should deal with vapor, steam or sprayed water.. not liquid.

"Admitting liquid water into a vacuum line doesn't work. The resulting droplets are way too large and rough running will result. The exception to this is in a turbo vehicle with the water admitted before the inlet turbine. The high speed turbine blades chop the water into a fine mist. This is not recommended though because the turbine blades can be rapidly eroded."

[spicerman]

The water is liquid right up to the point of induction into the throttle body port. But as it enters the "intense" air stream that is flowing past the butterfly it is instantly atomized into small droplets.
Try taking a soda pop bottle full of water and hold it out the car window at 60MPH. Slowly pour it out and you will see the principal in realtime.

[Stevo]

Berryman's Total Combustion Chamber Cleaning System

http://www.berrymanproducts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=147

Part#2610 (at the bottom of the page)

The system consists of the cleaning solution, but what you really need are the parts. Essentially these parts consist of: two vacuum tubes to fit you vehicle, some cheap vacuum line (fish aquarium hose), one water aerator (for the bottom of the solution bottle), one liquid/air atomizer venturi and an adapter fitting that fits one of the two vacuum tube pieces to the aquarium hose and your engine's vacuum source.

What does it do? Well, it atomizes the cleaning solution so that it can be properly ingested by the engine. I have personally tried this on my vehicle with the cleaning solution before. Gets the carbon out, but I'd rather use water.

Cost of the product is ~$15, but the parts are what's hard to find individually. Even though they are just plastic and probably cost 4 cents to make, I'm doubting you will find the parts needed to make one of your own that will work as well as this one. I would replace the fish aquarium tubing with heavier duty tubing. This is my next experiment.

[fastcompacts]

Hi all. I have been reading all the different threads on WVI and on steam injection and i have noticed that people are seeing some increase in MPG.(which is wicked cool) I just have a few questions. Are people only using distilled water (or water in general) to gain MPG's? The reason i ask is due to the fact that i live in New England and would like to have something that could give me MPG gains through out the year and i know a WVI system will not work in NE in the winter with just water(freezing issues big time) so... has anyone with a WVI system tried anything else such as a solution with alcohol in it? windshield fluid is something that comes to mind that wouldnt freeze so readily in winter. Is that something that would help out in with MPG's or is alcohol/water injection more for performance? Thanks in advance

[Roland Jacques]

Is this dude injecting LIQUID water into the TB?

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Sim...20Langwell.pdf

I thought we should deal with vapor, steam or sprayed water.. not liquid.

"Admitting liquid water into a vacuum line doesn't work. The resulting droplets are way too large and rough running will result. The exception to this is in a turbo vehicle with the water admitted before the inlet turbine. The high speed turbine blades chop the water into a fine mist. This is not recommended though because the turbine blades can be rapidly eroded."

If it was presure feed you would be right, but it works on a vaccuum. As long as that set up is operating strictly as negative pressure to deliver the water it should be atomised like a carburetor does.


I do think that design would atomize the water to a degree. But i think it could be better. It would seem to me that the highest velocity of air moving past that venturi (creating the most water delivery) would be at the lower throttle positions as the throttle opened more the focus of air movement would spread out and the vacuum on your water would go down when you would want it to go up.

[Stevo]

Hi all. I have been reading all the different threads on WVI and on steam injection and i have noticed that people are seeing some increase in MPG.(which is wicked cool) I just have a few questions. Are people only using distilled water (or water in general) to gain MPG's? The reason i ask is due to the fact that i live in New England and would like to have something that could give me MPG gains through out the year and i know a WVI system will not work in NE in the winter with just water(freezing issues big time) so... has anyone with a WVI system tried anything else such as a solution with alcohol in it? windshield fluid is something that comes to mind that wouldnt freeze so readily in winter. Is that something that would help out in with MPG's or is alcohol/water injection more for performance? Thanks in advance

The colder it gets, the more alcohol you will need. For a really cold enviro, I would suggest a system similar to the one listed on Panacea. Essentially, you just want to control the water feed BUT also utilize a small venturi in that same line to aerate the water supply before the throttle body and further ensure proper atomization.

With my current setup, I am starting to realize that winter time temps can be an interesting hurdle to clear.