Chemistry of SS316L:
Iron (Fe) 65%
Carbon (C) 0.08% max
Chrome (Cr) 17%
Manganese (Mn) 2%
Molybdenum (Mo) 2.5%
Nickel (Ni) 12%
Phosphorus (P) 0.045%
Sulphur (S) 0.03% min
Silicon (Si) 1%
Chemistry of SS316L:
Iron (Fe) 65%
Carbon (C) 0.08% max
Chrome (Cr) 17%
Manganese (Mn) 2%
Molybdenum (Mo) 2.5%
Nickel (Ni) 12%
Phosphorus (P) 0.045%
Sulphur (S) 0.03% min
Silicon (Si) 1%
Originally Posted by Ronjinsan
Hi Dennis
I have tried all of the above and probably the best was (believe it or not!) some perforated plate from the inside drum of a washing machine!! The worst was from fine mesh...Oh it produces well but wears out very quickly, makes sense I suppose. The problem with using any "Junk" Stainless is getting it straight! Eventually you will come to the same conclusion as most dedicated tinkerers and go and buy some nicely cropped to size 316l plates and carefully sand them in the lengthwise direction until they are nice and smooth. You see basically any stainless of any shape will work, it depends on the amount of electrolyte you use and ultimately the amperage you draw which will determine your heat factor........and thats what counts! All the best!
What do you mean the fine mesh wears out? what happens to it? are you talking like a steel wool fine mesh or a screen material?
im just trying ti figure out what would be best..
I wonder if a round edge or a sharp edge makes more HHO? i have herd that HHO is produced on the edges which is why a cross pattern sanding would work the best. I know from anodizing aluminum when you glass bead or sandblast a metal the high spots have a problem conducting electricity, which is why i think that for HHO production it is not very benificial either.
You do not want to use a polished stainless as the use a rouge to get the mirror finish. It gets impregnated into the metal.
Some manufacturers offer a polished version of 316. I would recommend it. I don't buy all this extra surface area from sanding, sounds like a big waste of time. I do agree that it IS all about surface area though. Hopefully resonance too.
Gentlemen,
I've been researching on the internet and doing my own backwoods testing on many type of cells, as I'm sure many of you have. I have concluded thus far, the more surface area the better, and have done my own test concerning the difference between plates with holes and plates without holes. I have found the perforated plates I tested used twice the amps, but produced two and a half times more hho/min. Since I am using a series cell, I'm not too concerned about the amps.
The question I have, is there an acid or base out there, which is capable of pitting the stainless steel plates enough to make it porous? From what research I have done on the net, there seems to be a trend in the electrolsis industry to use plates with nano technology or tiny pores or holes, and my guess is, this done chemically to etch the surface. Perhaps an acid which has a particular appetite for one of the elements in the SS. This is also another reason, I think the cells seem to do better the more they are used, because the electrolyte eventually etches the plates, thus creating more surface area. I would just like to speed up the process. Drilling ss is at best, very diffcult, as everyone knows. It appears ss has the ability to work harden as you drill it. I have so much money and time invested in the plates I currently have, I would like to find a way to use what I have. Drilling the plates just seems out of the question.
1973dodger
I'm thinking maybe sulfuric acid from a battery or hydrochloric (muriatic) acid from a swimming pool supply store. I think you may only find concentration of 10%-12%.
Senior Member
Look up angel hair finish for SS.
See http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html
Industry creates this surface with a rotating SS wire brush.
Question: Where can we buy a SS brush?
I hope that this helps.
BoyntonStu
Senior Member
Sanding the plates is very importand, and they should be sanded in a minimum of two (cross sanded) directions.
I also sand mine in both diagonal directions, as well as holding the plates against the belt sander (using vice grips), and oscilation my wrist, in a circular patern.
The idea of sanding, is two fold, it helps to clean the metals of any minerals, or oils used in production, and it also cuts ridges in every direction, to break surface tension of the hydrogen bubbles.
Oxygen bubbles are repelled away from the plates, because both the plates, and the bubbles possess the same positive charge ( unlikes attract, and likes repell).
But the hydrogen bubbles are attracted to the negative poles, and want to stay there, as unlikes attract.
The repulsion of the oxygen bubbles, causes the water to seem like it is boiling, as the oxygen trys to escape it's entire bath (everything around it, carrys the positive charge, except the negative pole, but the hydrogen bubbles (also positively charged) reside there, in double the numbers, of the oxygen atoms.
Therefore, the entire soup mix, is magneticly a similar charge, which the oxygen must escape.
In the boiling action, and through course sanding of the plates, the hydrogen bubbles break the bond of the plates, and also float to the surface.
As for the metal........
Stainless steel is created at the foundry, when hugh porcelin ladels (with massive internal electro magnets) are dipped into the molten steel.
when the electro magnets are turned on, iron is pulled into the ladel, which is removed, takeing with it the iron, in liquid form.
This is done several times, and most of the iron is removed.
However as this is done the entire mass is cooling, and it becomes expensive to reheat it, to remove additional iron.
So, to get the best metals, in only one attempt at heating, they usually work very quickly!
Most of the time, almost all of the iron is removed, in one heating, as ecconomics rule the process. Consequently cou can get some better grade stainless, priced as lower grade metals, because of the speed they work.
However, surgical grade stainless, is also produced, which by law requires a second smelting process, to be certain all iron is removed. From this process, the most expensive stainless is produced, and used for surgical instruments, and even replacements for bone.
Consequenty, 316 grade, usuall cost about twice as much, as 304 grade.
The best way to judge your metal (other than what it actually cost), is to subject it to a large magnet.
The round magnets, found of old sub woofer speakers, are ideal for this!
If you freely susspend a plate, from a string, or use a small probe inside a hole of it, it is free to move with the slightest breeze.
Now apply the magnet, near its surface, and see if it effects the metal pendelum.
If the magnet has no effect, on the plates whatsoever, there is absolutely no iron in it.
Without iron, in even any small amount, it will not corrode!
It is a very simple trick, and it can save you some very serious money!
PS: These large magnets also are great to mount under a motorcycle frame, as the help trip traffic signals. Sometimes, the frame of the bike is not powerful enough to trip the signal by itself, but the magnets do the trick.
I always know exactly where my magnets are!
Senior Member
As I understand this chemical make up of 316 stainless steel you post, then a strong magnet should definitely react to a 65% Iron composition!
I use 304 grade stainless, and it has absolutely no reaction to a very powerful magnet!
I use the same magnet, and I can lift a four inch long section of rail road track, that I use as a small anvil, of sorts!
Although I must admit that I'm carefull, to keep my feet out of the way.
I disagree with some of the above recommended processes and here's why.
First, I have also read about the recommended quick, fine cross hatch sanding, out there on the net. But, there is both correct, and incorrect information out there about this technology. I found that out during the weeks of bench testing I did personally!
I've taken plain 316L plates with oil still on them from the drilling. Put 'em together, drop it in the electrolyte bath, and hook up the power. Did this in a transparent container to visually observe production, plus used a digital EXTECH clamp meter to measure the amps.
It really doesn't take but a couple of minutes for the electrolyte, plus the electricity, plus the water molecules exploding into HHO gas on the surfaces of the plates, to clean those plates pretty damn good. After a couple, maybe a few minutes, all of the plates are makin' plenty of gas.
I don't like the idea of sanding this material, which really ain't cheap. Maybe just a really fast and quick hit with fine grade if you must.
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