Series vs. Parallel Configuration

[HHOJeeper]

Yeah, 1.5x1.5. Thing was super small. Like I said had a small amount of metal to work with. I had a free sheet of steel 12"x6" that I cut into 12 pieces and used 11 of them.

[myoldyourgold]

Jeeper Sir, That is to small to work with. You should only be running 1 amp through that to be safe. When you run more than that you are basically making a boiler. Not good at all. You must have larger surface area to make enough gas with out making a lot of steam which will carry a lot of electrolyte with it and possibly cause damage to your engine. Follow the rules I posted and that will give you a good start. You can then adjust from there.

[hhojedi]

Is the 1.5 x 1.5 active area correct. That is very small and would limit you to much.

Follow these three rules and you will be fine.

1. Not MORE than .5 amps/in² of active surface area on ONE plate.

2. Not MORE than 2.3 volts/cell (gap).

3. Not more than 500 ml/liter of engine size. Some engines require slightly more.

great info, i like the peramiters, gives a good jumping off point to get me started in the right direction, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
would this hold true for wet and dry cells, or did you have one or theother in mind? i'm about to start a new gen. and i want to try and size things better than just guessing like my first design.

peace

jedi

[myoldyourgold]

I would not build a wet reactor. So apply it to dry reactors.

[HHOJeeper]

Jeeper Sir, That is to small to work with. You should only be running 1 amp through that to be safe. When you run more than that you are basically making a boiler. Not good at all. You must have larger surface area to make enough gas with out making a lot of steam which will carry a lot of electrolyte with it and possibly cause damage to your engine. Follow the rules I posted and that will give you a good start. You can then adjust from there.

I produced hardly any steam at all. Then again I was running hardly any E at first too.
gen;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfgjZsGvEPk

I have videos of it running but for some reason I cannot send them from my phone

[sunjay]

yes the entire process is based upon parell and series operations only...
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[Farrahday]

Is the 1.5 x 1.5 active area correct. That is very small and would limit you to much.

Follow these three rules and you will be fine.

1. Not MORE than .5 amps/in² of active surface area on ONE plate.

2. Not MORE than 2.3 volts/cell (gap).

3. Not more than 500 ml/liter of engine size. Some engines require slightly more.

Hi, I've only recently found this forum, and (apart from The Water Fuel Cell Forum, which is primarily Meyer focussed, and WaterFuelforAll which has recently died a death) as far as I'm aware this is the only forum dedicated to the production of on-demand hydroxy, which is my field of expertise. I'm a member of many of the other OU forums, but there is little interest or indeed experience specifically in Electrolysers amd Hydroxy. So this it would seem is the place to be.

Can I just ask how you came by this set of 'rules'?

The significance of the voltage across each cell is obvious, but not so the other factors you state. For instance, what do you see happening if you draw, say, 2 amps per square inch of electrode?

There seems to be an awful lot of confusion here regarding plate configurations, etc, when quite simply we are looking to drop about 2 volts across each individual cell. In theory around 1.27 volts should do the trick, but adding electrolytes, plate materials and other factors make 2 volts a fairly safe figure.

Of course the idea is to achieve the minimum voltage to initiate electrolysis, while maximising the current. Any voltage above the threshold needed to initiate electrolysis, will increase power dissipation. It will of course also increase the gas output, but ideally we would want the extra current drawn due to lower resistance of the cells rather than increased voltage across them.

So if planning to use on a 12 vehicle, an electrolyser consisting of 7 plates in series is what you are looking at. You can then add further set of 7 plates electrolysers in parallel to this to enhance gas output.

It is always worth bearing in mind the relationship between Voltage, Current and Resistance, as per Ohms Law: V = I x R

Incidentally, though electrolytes add ion charge carriers and so reduce the resistance of the cells, because they themselves do not actually take part in the reaction at the electrodes, electrolytes will infact reduce overall cell/electrolyser efficiency.

Of course adding electrolyte is not the only way to reduce the resistance of the cells. Spacing the electrodes closer together or increasing the surface area of the electrodes also does the trick.

[myoldyourgold]

Can I just ask how you came by this set of 'rules'?

Farrah, the rules I stated are starting points for a beginner. Rules are made to brake in my book. As far as where they came from some are experience and others are from scientific research that has been published.

Not MORE than .5 amps/in² of active surface area on ONE plate comes from a study that found that 700 a/m² was the optimal current density. .5 amps is close a bit over I think, I did not do the math. I found everything worked better keeping it under .5 amps and this is in 1000's of hours or run time and still counting. I am running at .47 a/in² which seams to be the sweet spot in my set up.

[Farrahday]

Okay, fair enough. So cross hatching the plates should greatly increase plate surface area and hence increase the figure of '0.5 amps/in² of active surface area on ONE plate', assuming of course that this has not already been taken into consideration.

I know that electroplating currents certainly do dictate the nature of the deposits in terms of quality and reliability, so it does make sense that there will be an optimum current flowing through the cell for any given plate surface area, though what this means in terms of an electrolyser just evolving gases is not entirely clear. There may be some element of charge 'gridlock' occurring if we try to draw too much current through a cell with not enough plate surface area. Interesting.

[myoldyourgold]

Media blasting works a lot better than cross hatching and gives you much more surface area and much finer bubbles. Production increases heat goes down. Small bubbles prevent hot spots on the plates, lowers resistance, bubbles release faster and the production of Cr6 is reduced when using stainless. It is critical to make sure every plate is exactly the same. Things are a lot different when using nickle plates or a combination of nickle and stainless. Testing is on going in this area.

All of this changes the formula as far as optimum resistance per square inch. Each reactor is different and one most be able to tune it by controlling the electrolyte as I am not a PWM person. Measuring temperature accurately and production is critical to find the sweet spot. There is a definite sweet spot which can be found with some effort. The whole object for me is to get the amps down and the production up with a gas that works with the cars ECU without the use of electronics. It is a challenge but has been done just needs simplifying so it can be duplicated easily every time and under different conditions. Some cars are more of a challenge than others and results vary.