Less than impressed....

[Bill Foote]

I would also like to welcome Ed Caffrey to this forum, an excellent knifemaker! Your stuff is great, Ed. Nice to see you on another forum.

[SteveRich]

All,
I have had only good outcomes from my dealings with Sid (Fire in the Water). The dry cell plates/gaskets he offers are in my opinion the best available at a reasonable price.
From what I understand the his business is growing faster than he expected and on top of that rapid growth, he was ill for a period of time and I’m sure that impacted his response time.(possibly yours Ed)

The high S&H was in response to multiple requests to go back to selling individual plates and gaskets and that the prices would cover as many plates as you may order. Although the shipping for my entire 4 cell brick was $9.80.

I am a very happy customer and I am looking forward to an MAP/EFIE device he will offer soon that interfaces directly to the ECU via an OBD II interface. No more intercepting the sensor wires.

Happy Fire in the Water customer, Steve

[hg2]

Reading several different forums & threads.... there's several websites with the same issues like magdrive. Lousy CS!! Like ZERO CS.

Maybe there should be a BLACK LIST of hho companies

Oh man we'd have to create a new sub-forum for that list.It would be easier to list the good ones. LOL

[hg2]

All,
I have had only good outcomes from my dealings with Sid (Fire in the Water). The dry cell plates/gaskets he offers are in my opinion the best available at a reasonable price.
From what I understand the his business is growing faster than he expected and on top of that rapid growth, he was ill for a period of time and I’m sure that impacted his response time.(possibly yours Ed)

The high S&H was in response to multiple requests to go back to selling individual plates and gaskets and that the prices would cover as many plates as you may order. Although the shipping for my entire 4 cell brick was $9.80.

I am a very happy customer and I am looking forward to an MAP/EFIE device he will offer soon that interfaces directly to the ECU via an OBD II interface. No more intercepting the sensor wires.

Happy Fire in the Water customer, Steve

Do you have any data or results to post with this cell?

[hg2]

After checking out Sids site I'm wondering if he has much hho experience.The plates shown have too large a hole for electrolyte equalization and he has them cut inline.This goes against the plans for Tero Ranta cell construction.Holes this large and being in line with lead to heavy current leakage between cells,thus making the cell less efficient.Also saw this on the site that threw red flags up.

Sids own quote:

Brown’s gas Prototype. I had never heard of Tero Ranta prior to July 11, 2008 cited here:

http://waterfuel.t35.com/own_electrolyser.html
This is where I got the inspiration



This guy just heard about the Tero Ranta design only three months ago and done all his testing,started production and marketing.These plans have been around for quite some time now,I found them almost a year and a half ago.Makes me wonder how long he's been at it.

[Stevo]

After checking out Sids site I'm wondering if he has much hho experience.The plates shown have too large a hole for electrolyte equalization and he has them cut inline.This goes against the plans for Tero Ranta cell construction.Holes this large and being in line with lead to heavy current leakage between cells,thus making the cell less efficient.Also saw this on the site that threw red flags up.

Sids own quote:

Brown’s gas Prototype. I had never heard of Tero Ranta prior to July 11, 2008 cited here:

http://waterfuel.t35.com/own_electrolyser.html
This is where I got the inspiration



This guy just heard about the Tero Ranta design only three months ago and done all his testing,started production and marketing.These plans have been around for quite some time now,I found them almost a year and a half ago.Makes me wonder how long he's been at it.

It's also rather interesting how (much more than the size of the holes) the size of the gaskets are way too big. They are too thick and I calculate a considerable waste in surface area. Makes more sense to ensure precision in assembly and instead bolting outside the plates using about half the thickness for gaskets. Yes, you will end up with a slightly larger cell, but will have wasted less 316L (more active surface area) and neoprene considering HHO cells are for use under vacuum. I mean you will be using a decent amount of torque and 1/2 UHMW isn't *that* expensive when it comes down to it. Looks like his work is precise from the images shown though.

[hg2]

It's also rather interesting how (much more than the size of the holes) the size of the gaskets are way too big. They are too thick and I calculate a considerable waste in surface area. Makes more sense to ensure precision in assembly and instead bolting outside the plates using about half the thickness for gaskets. Yes, you will end up with a slightly larger cell, but will have wasted less 316L (more active surface area) and neoprene considering HHO cells are for use under vacuum. I mean you will be using a decent amount of torque and 1/2 UHMW isn't *that* expensive when it comes down to it. Looks like his work is precise from the images shown though.

I agree on the wasted plate area,it seems he had to design them that way to accomadate the holes used to clamp it together.He probably changed the original Tero plans trying to clamp all those plates especially the one that uses 37 of them.Looks like a leaky mess either way you do it.Don't care much for the nylon bolts used either,stainless steel doesn't stretch.

[EdCaffreyMS]

Those comments bring up a question that I've had about the dry cells.... the placement of the plate through holes. What is the preferred arrangement? It would make sense in my head if the holes where offset on every other plate....rather than being inline all the way through a cell. Is my logic correct? Or am I full of beans?

[hg2]

Those comments bring up a question that I've had about the dry cells.... the placement of the plate through holes. What is the preferred arrangement? It would make sense in my head if the holes where offset on every other plate....rather than being inline all the way through a cell. Is my logic correct? Or am I full of beans?

Nope no beans about it,you are correct they should be offset and the plans for the tero dry cell say to use 3mm(1/8") holes offset.I tried using 1/16" holes but it doesn't take much to clog that small of a hole,so I went with the 1/8" and it seems to work ok.

Sid probably makes his inline due to his plate design,it would be too confusing to deal with left and right plates constructing a cell.Especially selling them to a DIYER that hasn't built a cell.

[Roland Jacques]

Those comments bring up a question that I've had about the dry cells.... the placement of the plate through holes. What is the preferred arrangement? It would make sense in my head if the holes where offset on every other plate....rather than being inline all the way through a cell. Is my logic correct? Or am I full of beans?

Another opinion

I think off set holes are better than in line on a square cell, like the Sid cell.

But, I think it could be debated weather "off set holes" (for the gas) with a square gasket is as good as an inline when a house shaped gasket is being used.

I believe the house shape gaskets are channeling/maintaining the gases in a smaller confined portion of the cell may be better. Even though the holes are in line. The advantage of keeping the gas away from more of the production surfaces seems to more than compensate for the small amount of possible leakage. I’m just basing that on reported MMW’s #s I’ve seen. ( Maybe it is because leakage does not occur where gas is present, and if that area is full of 90% gases then leakage would be greatly reduced. just a hunch)

The down side to "off set holes" in a square gasket is the water level may only cover 85% of the available plate surface. With the house shape gasket the water may cover 95% of the available plate’s surface.

I guess bottom line which one has better MMW and lower heat.