Neutral plates

[stephane]

I used from now:
-NN+NN+NN-
I see that we are all using SS plate as neutral.
But what is the sense of it?
Did you ever try to use other material as Neutral?
Plexiglas, PVC plate?
Because in fact it's just to separate the + and - .

[BoyntonStu]

I used from now:
-NN+NN+NN-
I see that we are all using SS plate as neutral.
But what is the sense of it?
Did you ever try to use other material as Neutral?
Plexiglas, PVC plate?
Because in fact it's just to separate the + and - .

In the electrolyte, the Unconnected plates are NOT neutral!

BoyntonStu

[stephane]

Sir BoyntonStu, thanks for the reply.
If they are not neutral so what are they? +, -? How the electricity goes thought?

[pythoner]

The neutral plates in a unit conduct eletricity...so being not powered (marked as N) it has no power received from the power source it still gets voltage (power) through the electrolite or other impurities that you give it.


Typed on my Ipod

[BoyntonStu]

Sir BoyntonStu, thanks for the reply.
If they are not neutral so what are they? +, -? How the electricity goes thought?

Electricity flows though wires.

At every point along the wire as you go from + to - the voltage is slightly less + than it was at the previous point. Less positive is the same as being negative with respect to the previous point.

Electricity flows through an electrolyte. In fact, we see 50 Amps or more easily flowing through the liquid.

At every point along the electrolyte as you go from + to - the voltage is slightly less + than it was at the previous point. Less positive is the same as being negative with respect to the previous point.


I hope that this helps.


BoyntonStu

[stephane]

Ok, it's more clear, thank you.
One more question, if you don't mind:
How can you calculate the volt/amp if the N plates are slightly less "charged"?
Is it going in crescendo, I mean for example the first one is +2,5V (as an example), the second +2,3 the third +2,1 and so on?
Regarding this, N plates are also producing gas, isn't it?

thanks for yr answers.

[BoyntonStu]

Ok, it's more clear, thank you.
One more question, if you don't mind:
How can you calculate the volt/amp if the N plates are slightly less "charged"?
Is it going in crescendo, I mean for example the first one is +2,5V (as an example), the second +2,3 the third +2,1 and so on?
Regarding this, N plates are also producing gas, isn't it?

thanks for yr answers.

First, I suggest calling them U plates.

You have a 2 plate cell and 12 volts between them.

You add a third plate, a U plate in between them.

If you measure the U plate from the - it will measure +6 Volts.


If you measure the U plate from the + it will measure -6 Volts.


Add more U plates and the voltages will go down in proportion to the number of plates.

For example; using 7 plates you get 6 cells.

Immersed in the electrolyte, there will be 2 Volts between 2 adjacent cell plates.

I have been atempting to change the nomenclature to avoid this confusion without success.


Calling a plate N wastes too much time.


BoyntonStu

[DaneDHorstead]

Sir BoyntonStu, thanks for the reply.
If they are not neutral so what are they? +, -? How the electricity goes thought?

Stephane;

Reading on, I don't really think you got the point of the "N" plates (to include U plates, ( aka:Fred plates, Sally plates, or plates by any other name)

Changing the name of the plate, does not change it's function, but in the case where Stu says call it a U plate, I am afraid that only further confuses the issue........

Stu is a brilliant man, and I don't want to be critical. But, because there actually are plates out there, that are litterally folded plates (bent over (folded) in the middle, to form a U). this designation of the U plate, confuses the issue....

He states he has been largely unsuccesful, at getting people to call them U plates, and he is right, in that respect. Changing the name of the plate, does not change it's function!

Noe in regard to the Fred, and Sally plates, it should be apparent, that a name, is only a name! (A rose by any other name....)

Generally accepted N is the name given to a stainless plate, that is not physicly attached to the current, but that does conduct current through induction.

The N plates are Not connected, and rely on induction (current leaked in the form of magnetic waves), through insolation, or in this case, electrolyte.

Long about the 8th grade, you should have been shown a science experiment, where an insulated wire was wrapped many times around a nail, or similar metal bar, or shaft.

The wire being insulated, does not make physical contact with the nail, but when the wire is connected to both poles of a drycell battery, the nail become magnetic.

But, it is only magnetic, as long as the current flows through the insulated wire.

The nail, although not connected directly to the battery, is getting inducted current! This is the same way, very large electromagnets in a junk yard work, and they litterally can pick up a whole car.

In the HHO solution, current is indirectly passed (without physical connection), to the N plates. Thus using one N plate, between a 14 volt input, and the 0 volt negative, the N plate will hold a 7 volt charge, as the electrolyte allows for voltage leakage, similar to the insolation leaked/induced an indirect current flow, in the electro magnet experiment.

Now, adding more N plates, you get gaps between the plates, which determine how many times the input volts, are divided, to determine volt drop at each plate.

As an example, 14 volts input, with 7 gaps, produces a 2 volt drop between each plate........

14 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 0

A two volt drop between each plate is the generally accepted target, to maintain production, and to control heat.

Truthfully, HHO can be produced, with as little as a 1.4 volt drop (10 gap), but production suffers. On the other hand, volt drop higher than 2.4 to 2.5 volts, starts to produce excess heat.

Any plate design that does not use N plates, automatlcly drops any voltage in excess of the 2.4 volts needed to produce HHO, as excessive heat! (AKA: wasted energy).

Manipulating the number of N plates, and the gap distance between them, you can gain some control, over not only production, but also over wasted energy, in the form of excess heat.

Does that help?

[BoyntonStu]

Stephane;

Reading on, I don't really think you got the point of the "N" plates (to include U plates, ( aka:Fred plates, Sally plates, or plates by any other name)

Changing the name of the plate, does not change it's function, but in the case where Stu says call it a U plate, I am afraid that only further confuses the issue........

Stu is a brilliant man, and I don't want to be critical. But, because there actually are plates out there, that are litterally folded plates (bent over (folded) in the middle, to form a U). this designation of the U plate, confuses the issue....

He states he has been largely unsuccesful, at getting people to call them U plates, and he is right, in that respect. Changing the name of the plate, does not change it's function!

Noe in regard to the Fred, and Sally plates, it should be apparent, that a name, is only a name! (A rose by any other name....)

Generally accepted N is the name given to a stainless plate, that is not physicly attached to the current, but that does conduct current through induction.

The N plates are Not connected, and rely on induction (current leaked in the form of magnetic waves), through insolation, or in this case, electrolyte.

Long about the 8th grade, you should have been shown a science experiment, where an insulated wire was wrapped many times around a nail, or similar metal bar, or shaft.

The wire being insulated, does not make physical contact with the nail, but when the wire is connected to both poles of a drycell battery, the nail become magnetic.

But, it is only magnetic, as long as the current flows through the insulated wire.

The nail, although not connected directly to the battery, is getting inducted current! This is the same way, very large electromagnets in a junk yard work, and they litterally can pick up a whole car.

In the HHO solution, current is indirectly passed (without physical connection), to the N plates. Thus using one N plate, between a 14 volt input, and the 0 volt negative, the N plate will hold a 7 volt charge, as the electrolyte allows for voltage leakage, similar to the insolation leaked/induced an indirect current flow, in the electro magnet experiment.

Now, adding more N plates, you get gaps between the plates, which determine how many times the input volts, are divided, to determine volt drop at each plate.

As an example, 14 volts input, with 7 gaps, produces a 2 volt drop between each plate........

14 - 12 - 10 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 0

A two volt drop between each plate is the generally accepted target, to maintain production, and to control heat.

Truthfully, HHO can be produced, with as little as a 1.4 volt drop (10 gap), but production suffers. On the other hand, volt drop higher than 2.4 to 2.5 volts, starts to produce excess heat.

Any plate design that does not use N plates, automatlcly drops any voltage in excess of the 2.4 volts needed to produce HHO, as excessive heat! (AKA: wasted energy).

Manipulating the number of N plates, and the gap distance between them, you can gain some control, over not only production, but also over wasted energy, in the form of excess heat.

Does that help?

Sorry, Dane you are not correct about conductivity.


Some electrical conductivities:

Electrical Conductivity

Silver 63.01 × 10^6 20 Highest electrical conductivity of any known metal

Copper 59.6 × 10^6 20
Annealed Copper 58.0 × 10^6 20 Referred to as 100% IACS or International Annealed Copper Standard. The unit for expressing the conductivity of nonmagnetic materials by testing using the eddy-current method. Generally used for temper and alloy verification of Aluminium.

Electrical Conductivity and temperature *C.

Gold 45.2 × 10^6 20 Gold is commonly used in electrical contacts

Aluminium 37.8 × 10^6 20


Seawater 5 23 Refer to http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/genera...2_7/2_7_9.html for more detail as there are many variations and significant variables for seawater.

5(S·m-1) would be for an average salinity of 35 g/kg at about 23(°C) Copyright on the linked material can be found here http://www.kayelaby.npl.co.uk/copyright/


Drinking water 0.0005 to 0.05 This value range is typical of high quality drinking water and not an indicator of water quality
deionized water 5.5 × 10-6[1] changes to 1.2 × 10-4 in water with no gas present[1]

Notice that seawater has 10,000 times the conductivity of drinking water.

Add NaOH or KOH to distilled water and its CONDUCTIVITY jumps way up.


I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[Bassman]

That's a very good explanation but I might add that even steel will work but the problem is that your catalyst will dissolve certain metals, depending on what catalyst that you use.