Winterizing

[Dave Nowlin]

I have an observation. Maybe it's valid. Maybe not. There seems to be a belief that by using a slightly acidic solution in a secondary bubbler any caustic carryover in the HHO will be neutralized. Now for my thoughts. The HHO and the caustic are introduced into the bubbler as bubbles. They remain inside of the bubble until it reaches the surface of the liquid and pops releasing the gas which rises above the surface of the liquid and exists on demand from intake vacuum. The caustic incased within the bubble isn't neutralized as it is isolated from the acidic solution by the wall of the bubble. When the bubble bursts the gas is instantly airborne. All this taken into account, how much of the caustic is truly neutralized? I doubt that very much is. Some type of absorptive scrubber like that made by Seigrene is needed. It has been tested over a period of several months using Sodium Hydroxide as it leaves telltale crystals in the intake which indicate it's presence. After a several month trial run, none was found. With my 6.0 diesel I need to know with some assurance I don't get Potassim Hydroxide in my intercooler. It is made of aluminum.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I have an observation. Maybe it's valid. Maybe not. There seems to be a belief that by using a slightly acidic solution in a secondary bubbler any caustic carryover in the HHO will be neutralized. Now for my thoughts. The HHO and the caustic are introduced into the bubbler as bubbles. They remain inside of the bubble until it reaches the surface of the liquid and pops releasing the gas which rises above the surface of the liquid and exists on demand from intake vacuum. The caustic incased within the bubble isn't neutralized as it is isolated from the acidic solution by the wall of the bubble. When the bubble bursts the gas is instantly airborne. All this taken into account, how much of the caustic is truly neutralized? I doubt that very much is. Some type of absorptive scrubber like that made by Seigrene is needed. It has been tested over a period of several months using Sodium Hydroxide as it leaves telltale crystals in the intake which indicate it's presence. After a several month trial run, none was found. With my 6.0 diesel I need to know with some assurance I don't get Potassim Hydroxide in my intercooler. It is made of aluminum.

Dave Nowlin

I agree. Unless you break up the bubble the bubbler is of little or no use except as a flash arrestor. Your intercooler is a huge problem. As the gas is cooled in the intercooler the liquid will form and fall to the bottom causing an expensive problem. You need to break up the bubbles several times in the bubbler using mesh screen or something similar.

[coffeeachiever]

I agree. Unless you break up the bubble the bubbler is of little or no use except as a flash arrestor. Your intercooler is a huge problem. As the gas is cooled in the intercooler the liquid will form and fall to the bottom causing an expensive problem. You need to break up the bubbles several times in the bubbler using mesh screen or something similar.

I thought of that too. The best solution I've heard until Dave's post was to put the gas through an aerating aquarium stone. Not sure how effective that would be. Dave, I've never heard of the solution you're talking about, but I'll definitely be checking it out.

[Dave Nowlin]

a for real website. It came on line last Saturday. If you will call them they will be glad to tell you about the scrubber.

Dave Nowlin

[Painless]

To recover some old ground:

My cleansing bubbler design solves this problem, it employs a tightly packed coil going down through the liquid creating a condenser. The water vapour becomes water again and sits in the bottom of the vinegar where the caustic base is neutralised.

You can find the design on my thread.

[cozumel2]

One suggestion was to disconnect the unit & bring it in at night. I have to imagine that idea came from somebody that considers 28 above as frigid. Try 28 below and see if you care to stand out after a long day's work and mess with a bunch of cold wires and tubes in a 30 MPH wind at midnight. NOT gonna happen. As far as the heater pads etc, those may be fine at home but what about letting it sit in a parking lot at work for 10 hours or overnight at a motel if you are on the road? The solution to the problem has to be self contained, either thru an electrolyte that will not freeze or a 12V heater of some sort that will not run the battery down in 12 hours in cold weather. Still open to ideas. Thanks

[Randohr]

I fill my bubblers with -20 windshield washer fluid and have no problems. We've had many days and nights below (way below) freezing. I use about 4 tlbs of KOH per liter of water, or more. Not real scientific and not sure if I'm close to the 28% KOH target but so far my cells have never failed to produce. I do believe I had slush a few times, but I still produced hho. My amps stay rock solid at 14 amps no matter what the temperature (no adjustment needed) so it seems to bust up the slush nicely. I'm hoping for a mild winter so my set-up will work year around. So far so good.

[daddymikey1975]

To recover some old ground:

My cleansing bubbler design solves this problem, it employs a tightly packed coil going down through the liquid creating a condenser. The water vapour becomes water again and sits in the bottom of the vinegar where the caustic base is neutralised.

You can find the design on my thread.

this was one DEFINITE solution that worked. The only other that I've run across (that's tried and true as well) was Smith03Jetta.. he mentioned a filter that can be purchased at a paint shop that filters particles down to .01 microns ( i believe ) and he believed that with filtering this small, the KOH or NaOH couldn't pass through the filter. His testing of this idea was as detailed as painless' with his cleansing bubbler. See Smith's experiment thread for more info on this.

I hope this helps
mike
(both Painless' design and Smith's design would work IMO just as well if the sole purpose is to keep the caustic out of the motor)