Brand new project...need help! Some questions!

[mobman]

Hey guys,

I am new to the whole HHO business but im planning on building a kit myself to use in my car. I had some questions before I dish out some $$$, hope you guys can be of any help.

1) I am seeing alot of "dry" HHO kits for sale on eBay, are they any better than the wet kits? Which one produces more HHO gas? Which one is better in an automotive application?
2) I am seeing alot of people talking about different amp levels etc. what really works and gives you the most gas production? More amps? more voltage? more frequency?? ::
3) How do EFIF chips work? What exactly do they do??
4) What type of materials for the generator work best? as in...Stainless steel/aluminum/titanium....what shape? Tubes? Sheets, mesh styles?
5) Any recommendations on containers?
6) Since we are going to be hooking up the "bubbler" to the intake, isnt the car's engine going to suck out the water from the bubbler into the engine??
7) What sort of pressures (in PSI) inside the container can be seen when the generator is powered up?
8) How about the heat issue? Anybody has a solution?

Thanks guys, I'd really appreciate your input and time.

[coffeeachiever]

One thread is enough. I just answered all those questions for you in Q&A. Others will fill in what I left out on that thread. We work together pretty well here.

[Q-Hack!]

Hey guys,

I am new to the whole HHO business but im planning on building a kit myself to use in my car. I had some questions before I dish out some $$$, hope you guys can be of any help.

1) I am seeing alot of "dry" HHO kits for sale on eBay, are they any better than the wet kits? Which one produces more HHO gas? Which one is better in an automotive application?
2) I am seeing alot of people talking about different amp levels etc. what really works and gives you the most gas production? More amps? more voltage? more frequency?? ::
3) How do EFIF chips work? What exactly do they do??
4) What type of materials for the generator work best? as in...Stainless steel/aluminum/titanium....what shape? Tubes? Sheets, mesh styles?
5) Any recommendations on containers?
6) Since we are going to be hooking up the "bubbler" to the intake, isnt the car's engine going to suck out the water from the bubbler into the engine??
7) What sort of pressures (in PSI) inside the container can be seen when the generator is powered up?
8) How about the heat issue? Anybody has a solution?

Thanks guys, I'd really appreciate your input and time.

Coffeeachiever is correct... these questions have been answered repeatedly on the forum. But since I am a nice guy...

1.) Dry cell is a cell that has the plates squished together with some sort of rubber/neoprene seal such that the edges of the plates do not touch any electrolyte. Wet cell is where the plates are submerged into a bath of electrolyte. They usually require something to seal the edges of the plates up to keep the current from leaking around the edges. Dry cells are more efficient than wet cells, tend to be more durable and just look better.

2.) Amps, volts and frequency all play there part but in different aspects. Generaly speaking, the more amperage the more HHO production. There is a limit to how much amperage your vehicle can handle without destroying your alternator/battery. Usually about 20 Amps on most vehicles is a safe limit. You only need ~2VDC to create HHO. A simple plate setup of one anode and one cathode (+-) for your car will have 12-14VDC across the plate gap. This means that the remaining 10-12VDC is generating heat. We get around this by adding unconnected plates in between the anode and cathode (+|||||-). This has the effect of dropping the voltage between each plate gap to about 2VDC. The current is then controlled by one of two methods. Slowly add small amounts of electrolyte to water until you get the amperage reading you want or utilize a PWM. Pulse Width Modulators have the nice effect of lowering the mean amperage sent to the HHO generator by pulsing the DC voltage at some frequency. PWMs require a bit more advanced knowledge to set up properly.

3.) EFIE or Electronic Fuel injection Enhancer. These devices are only required for newer fuel injected vehicles (note: carburettors can be leaned out by an adjustment screw). They allow you to lean out the engine thus reducing your gas consumption. They do this by fooling the cars CPU into thinking the O2 sensor is sensing less oxygen in the exhaust than is really there.

4.) The de facto standard is 316L Stainless Steal plates. Relatively inexpensive and holds up well in the long haul. Best to stick with the tried and true.

5.) Depends on a lot of factors.... for a wet cell CPVC works really well. Some people have experience leaks, but I used it for almost a year with no problems. For dry cells you want your end caps to be something sturdy. I have been using plastic kitchen cutting boards with fairly good results so far. What ever you decide to use make sure that it will handle both heat and whatever chemical you use as the electrolyte.

6.) It is important to design your bubbler such that it doesn't suck anything into the engine.

7.) High PSI and HHO are not a good combination. As long as you have a path for the HHO to get to the engine, you won't build up any dangerous PSI. If however you continue to generate HHO while the engine is turned off you will create a dangerous condition. Many people hook up there HHO generators to the vacuum line on the engine. While this works, it does require more thought into the design of the bubbler so that you don't start sucking electrolyte either into the engine or out of the generator into the bubbler. You also need to be sure not to create any leaks in the vacuum line system. This will rob you of gas mileage faster than anything else.

8.) Heat is best fixed with the design of your cell. A (+|||||-) design is the best. You can chain them together like (+|||||-|||||+|||||-) This gives you more surface area to generate more gas.

Its all experimentation. Have fun with it.

[mobman]

Coffeeachiever is correct... these questions have been answered repeatedly on the forum. But since I am a nice guy...

1.) Dry cell is a cell that has the plates squished together with some sort of rubber/neoprene seal such that the edges of the plates do not touch any electrolyte. Wet cell is where the plates are submerged into a bath of electrolyte. They usually require something to seal the edges of the plates up to keep the current from leaking around the edges. Dry cells are more efficient than wet cells, tend to be more durable and just look better.

2.) Amps, volts and frequency all play there part but in different aspects. Generaly speaking, the more amperage the more HHO production. There is a limit to how much amperage your vehicle can handle without destroying your alternator/battery. Usually about 20 Amps on most vehicles is a safe limit. You only need ~2VDC to create HHO. A simple plate setup of one anode and one cathode (+-) for your car will have 12-14VDC across the plate gap. This means that the remaining 10-12VDC is generating heat. We get around this by adding unconnected plates in between the anode and cathode (+|||||-). This has the effect of dropping the voltage between each plate gap to about 2VDC. The current is then controlled by one of two methods. Slowly add small amounts of electrolyte to water until you get the amperage reading you want or utilize a PWM. Pulse Width Modulators have the nice effect of lowering the mean amperage sent to the HHO generator by pulsing the DC voltage at some frequency. PWMs require a bit more advanced knowledge to set up properly.

3.) EFIE or Electronic Fuel injection Enhancer. These devices are only required for newer fuel injected vehicles (note: carburettors can be leaned out by an adjustment screw). They allow you to lean out the engine thus reducing your gas consumption. They do this by fooling the cars CPU into thinking the O2 sensor is sensing less oxygen in the exhaust than is really there.

4.) The de facto standard is 316L Stainless Steal plates. Relatively inexpensive and holds up well in the long haul. Best to stick with the tried and true.

5.) Depends on a lot of factors.... for a wet cell CPVC works really well. Some people have experience leaks, but I used it for almost a year with no problems. For dry cells you want your end caps to be something sturdy. I have been using plastic kitchen cutting boards with fairly good results so far. What ever you decide to use make sure that it will handle both heat and whatever chemical you use as the electrolyte.

6.) It is important to design your bubbler such that it doesn't suck anything into the engine.

7.) High PSI and HHO are not a good combination. As long as you have a path for the HHO to get to the engine, you won't build up any dangerous PSI. If however you continue to generate HHO while the engine is turned off you will create a dangerous condition. Many people hook up there HHO generators to the vacuum line on the engine. While this works, it does require more thought into the design of the bubbler so that you don't start sucking electrolyte either into the engine or out of the generator into the bubbler. You also need to be sure not to create any leaks in the vacuum line system. This will rob you of gas mileage faster than anything else.

8.) Heat is best fixed with the design of your cell. A (+|||||-) design is the best. You can chain them together like (+|||||-|||||+|||||-) This gives you more surface area to generate more gas.

Its all experimentation. Have fun with it.

ow man! thanks for that info im much better informed now especially about point 2. I was wondering why ppl didnt hookup the plates inbetween seemed to be like a waste of plates...so it serves to cool the system down! aha! got it! Two more noob questions though:

1) what should be the physical gap between these plates? what worked the best?
2) I am still alittle confused about the drycell i have seen plenty of them yet I dont seem to grasp how they work. It seems they have the electrolyte inside the cell...but you just said the electrolyte isnt touching the plates?? Im a little confused there. If we mesh together all the plates where does the electrolyte go in a drycell??

[Q-Hack!]

Plate gap of 1mm works great. If you haven't seen any of his videos yet, check out zerofossilfuel on youtube. It takes a while to watch all of them, but you learn a lot. One of his experimental generators used zipties to set the spacing of the plates... then he glued it all together and removed the zipties. This left about 1mm of gap in which the electrolyte can flow between.

Dry cell is sort of a misnomer. It still has electrolyte flowing in between the plates. Most are set up using convection to circulate the electrolyte. That is to say, there is an inlet hose at the bottom and an exit hose at the top that both feed into a reservoir. This has the added benefit of using the reservoir as your bubbler.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=...el&view=videos
http://www.alt-nrg.org/