PWM test

[alpha-dog]

I've been conducting some test on pwm's on a test generator. One thing that I would like do do is get it to oscillate ( resonate ). There is something I want to share with you on these pwm's. Because they were made to operate DC motors an anti chatter diode is install on each pwm. If you look at schematics you see them used all the time on relays and motors to prevent reverse current flow. That could make the relay re-energize or the motor try to go backwards. I don't think we need it on HHO generators but it would be a good idea to take the diodes out of the pwm's and install them reversed bias on the HHO power relays primarys. Now reversed biased would be the same as there installed in the pwm's. The line side to the positive voltage. In the MX067 that diode is called D1 I believe it has the same name on ZFF pwm.

Attachment 1043

[Q-Hack!]

Any chance you could repost that schematic in a better quality pic?

[alpha-dog]

Something really interesting happened after removing the diodes on my master/slave pwm set-up. Also I added a coil to the generator to the middle (+) terminal ( +NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ ). The generator stayed charge for about 2 minutes still producing Brown's gas after power was removed. the generator was charged. I'm using a battery with jumper. I also used a weak electrolyte solution. I'll have to try it with the coil out of the circuit and see if it still does it.
I was also able to see pulses in both halves of the duty cycle on my single trace o'scope.

[alpha-dog]

I was really hoping to reduce current and keep HHO production up but it seem that the formula for HHO is current + voltage = HHO production. I am able to use a higher electrolite solution with the pwm controlling current but at best will only match production. Also the pwm itself will drop about 2/3 to 3/4 of a volt. If to much current usage is a problem then using a pwm is good and master/slaving pwm's will prevent huge current spikes on large HHO generators.
As soon as I find a suitable DC electric motor I'm going to pull the coils out of it and attempt to interrupt the incoming voltage ( L+ ) has opposed to the output ( L- ) terminals.

[Q-Hack!]

I was really hoping to reduce current and keep HHO production up but it seem that the formula for HHO is current + voltage = HHO production. I am able to use a higher electrolite solution with the pwm controlling current but at best will only match production. Also the pwm itself will drop about 2/3 to 3/4 of a volt. If to much current usage is a problem then using a pwm is good and master/slaving pwm's will prevent huge current spikes on large HHO generators.
As soon as I find a suitable DC electric motor I'm going to pull the coils out of it and attempt to interrupt the incoming voltage ( L+ ) has opposed to the output ( L- ) terminals.

Yep, that is in standing with what the rest of us have discovered... PWM's are great for limiting heat. None of us have been able to recreate the "resonance" effect that Stan Myers claimed... Yet...

[jather]

http://hydrogenwaterfuel.com/cart/in...d&productId=35

Has anyone ever checked this out? Pricey, but is it all necessary?

[h2gen]

http://hydrogenwaterfuel.com/cart/in...d&productId=35

Has anyone ever checked this out? Pricey, but is it all necessary?

If you look at Xogen's patent, it appears that a mark-space ratio of 10:1 is a key factor.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=7LI...26794#PPA16,M1

I think it is the large mark-space ratio that plays two important roles: it reduces current draw (by using intermittent pulses of energy) and forces current accumulated in the plates (which are basically a large capacitor) to discharge and form bubbles.

The patent shows a pretty simple circuit for PWM generation. Perhaps all it's needed is a simple square-wave PWM, as long as it has a way to tune the mark-space ratio to 10:1 (most PWM controllers have a 1:1 ratio).
Cheers,
H2GEN

[alpha-dog]

I think that the most interesting information I found is that the generator charges. Ohm's law certainly applies to it, but basically using a pwm you still have a dc circuit. Your interrupting the ground to control current flow. I have a gut feeling that interrupting the incoming voltage will yield better results for oscillation. A pwm need modification for that. I'll probably consult some of the engineers at work on that issue.

Russ

[alpha-dog]

If you look at Xogen's patent, it appears that a mark-space ratio of 10:1 is a key factor.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=7LI...26794#PPA16,M1

I think it is the large mark-space ratio that plays two important roles: it reduces current draw (by using intermittent pulses of energy) and forces current accumulated in the plates (which are basically a large capacitor) to discharge and form bubbles.

The patent shows a pretty simple circuit for PWM generation. Perhaps all it's needed is a simple square-wave PWM, as long as it has a way to tune the mark-space ratio to 10:1 (most PWM controllers have a 1:1 ratio).
Cheers,
H2GEN

That's kinda what I'm talking about by interrupting the incoming voltage. Pwm's are designed to maintain a DC circuit. We need to change it to a tank circuit if we are going to have any success.
Russ

[h2gen]

There is some serious research being done in the field of pulsed DC for electrolysis. Here is a link to a paper entitled "Pulsed DC and Anode Depolarization in Water Electrolysis for Hydrogen Generation", demonstrating a 300% gain in H2 production when using pulsed electrolysis. The cell stack they used is also more advanced than an EBN dry cell, it uses a Nafion membrane to separate hydrogen and oxygen:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/P1.pdf