Gas4Free

[redrat100]

I searched these forums but did not find much on the Gas4Free system. So, I am starting a thread. Please excuse the long post...

I am a bit of a skeptic regarding the wide spread claims of 40% to 100% mpg increases using a HHO generator in a car. But, I know enough about chemistry and engineering to understand that it just might work. Not wanting to spend a pile of cash on a pre-built set-up, I bought the Gas4Free e-books. I figured that the price was cheap enough for what I may learn.

I have three cars so I built three units per the instructions verbatim. In bench testing the first one I dutifully added the recommended 5 tablespoons of table salt to 1/2 liter distilled water (1/2 liter is all this unit will hold). As I connected it to a car battery gas just erupted from the plates. It looked like it was boiling. The elation stopped suddenly when I noticed the wires inside begin to glow. That was a few seconds before I heard a dull thump and saw a pretty bluish-orange ball of fire inside the generator. The housing contained the explosion, no bodily harm done other that a sudden adrenaline surge and the extreme urge need to urinate at the moment.

To make a long story short, after thanking God for a second chance I discovered this forum and read about NaOH. I experimented and settled on 1/16 teaspoon NaOH to 500ml water. The unit draws about 20amps and produces 1 liter of gas in about 5 minutes cold. Hot it puts out 1 liter in 4 minutes. It boils after 20 minutes.

Added a 30 amp pwm and installed it into my 1996 VW Jetta, 2.0L 5 spd just before Christmas. Now it draws about 12 amps, puts out 1 liter in 6 minutes and boils in an hour. So far I have noticed a <2.5% increase in mpg. Yawn.

My conclusions: a Gas4Free unit does not work if you follow the instructions to the letter. A lot of tweaking is needed, like plate prep, electrolyte mix, pwm, and other things that are not mentioned. But, the price for admission was worth it. As a skeptic my curiosity is piqued enough to keep dabbling with this HHO thing.

Any advice would be truly appreciated.

Red

[alpha-dog]

I searched these forums but did not find much on the Gas4Free system. So, I am starting a thread. Please excuse the long post...

I am a bit of a skeptic regarding the wide spread claims of 40% to 100% mpg increases using a HHO generator in a car. But, I know enough about chemistry and engineering to understand that it just might work. Not wanting to spend a pile of cash on a pre-built set-up, I bought the Gas4Free e-books. I figured that the price was cheap enough for what I may learn.

I have three cars so I built three units per the instructions verbatim. In bench testing the first one I dutifully added the recommended 5 tablespoons of table salt to 1/2 liter distilled water (1/2 liter is all this unit will hold). As I connected it to a car battery gas just erupted from the plates. It looked like it was boiling. The elation stopped suddenly when I noticed the wires inside begin to glow. That was a few seconds before I heard a dull thump and saw a pretty bluish-orange ball of fire inside the generator. The housing contained the explosion, no bodily harm done other that a sudden adrenaline surge and the extreme urge need to urinate at the moment.

To make a long story short, after thanking God for a second chance I discovered this forum and read about NaOH. I experimented and settled on 1/16 teaspoon NaOH to 500ml water. The unit draws about 20amps and produces 1 liter of gas in about 5 minutes cold. Hot it puts out 1 liter in 4 minutes. It boils after 20 minutes.

Added a 30 amp pwm and installed it into my 1996 VW Jetta, 2.0L 5 spd just before Christmas. Now it draws about 12 amps, puts out 1 liter in 6 minutes and boils in an hour. So far I have noticed a <2.5% increase in mpg. Yawn.

My conclusions: a Gas4Free unit does not work if you follow the instructions to the letter. A lot of tweaking is needed, like plate prep, electrolyte mix, pwm, and other things that are not mentioned. But, the price for admission was worth it. As a skeptic my curiosity is piqued enough to keep dabbling with this HHO thing.

Any advice would be truly appreciated.

Red

Build a dry cell. Painless uses ss switch plates, but you can order some nice 316 ss from scm. Use a plastic cutting board for the sides.

[jriggs_18]

Unfortunately all of the information that you gained via the gas4free books were available for free on the e-net @ no charge. At any rate, 2.5% percent increase could be due the weather, wind or gas quality, etc..... HHO does work, but not to the degree that some snake oil salesman will claim. I wish you the best on your journey. FWIW the sealed series cell (dry cell) is going to be your bet.

[redrat100]

[QUOTE=Shane Jackson;21370]Also without a EFIE you are not going to see much MPG gain....QUOTE]

Thanks for the input- Starting over is not a bad idea. The optimist in me does not want to pass judgement on HHO after using one bad design. But, the skeptic in me says "I told you so".

I've read that using an efie leans out the mixture. How do you know that your mpg gains are not strictly from this device? (Leaner mixture = less gasoline) Also, these gizmos require you to splice into the O2 sensor wires. Isn't that illegal and considered 'tampering with smog equipment'?

Just trying to learn the truth here, thanks for your patience.

[daddymikey1975]

As of Nov. 15 1990 Federal law prohibits anyone from removing or rendering inoperative any emission control device or element of design that is installed on a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle engine...

see this link: http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...donttamper.pdf

we're not removing or rendering inoperative anything to do with emissions....

For your concerns about the EFIE being the sole grantor of MPG gains, may i suggest reading (in their entirety) these posts...

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?...ighlight=smith

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=771

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=183

based on these member's results, I can only assume that we've got tons of experience here telling us that it is not the efie alone creating the gains.

basically its like this.. when the HHO is added to the car, it results in a more complete burn of the air/fuel mixture. This more complete burn is detected by the o2 sensors and the computer compensates (because it's programmed to) by adding in even MORE fuel to keep it's stoich mixture of 14.7:1.. well, by adding the extra fuel to keep it's mixture proper it's effectively using MORE fuel than when the HHO was added...

for obvious reasons this is counterproductive. So we add the EFIE to adjust the o2 sensor to compensate for this perceived lean condition.

If we were to adjust the EFIE alone without HHO (NOT recommended) you'd effectively be starving the engine for fuel and you'd lose power... but in addition to that your combustion chambers would get extremely hot due to the lack of fuel present.. (the extra fuel aids in keeping things cool in there, that's why we have catalytic converters..to expend the extra unburnt fuel)

so when we adjust the EFIE with HHO the HHO does help to keep the cylinder temps at bay while catalyzing the air/fuel mixture so it can burn more completely.

I hope this answers some questions for you.

anything else you need, please ask, we're here to help.
mike

[redrat100]

Thanks for the reply on the efie question. Also for the thread links. Mr Smith's has my attention because my Gas4Free unit is in my '96 Jetta. Started lookig for a pre-built efie that I can fit into my gauge cluster.

Another neophite question: Is there an HHO glossary somewhere? I misplaced my decoder ring and am having a time with all of the acronyms being thrown around. Tero Cell? Amoeba Cell? Smacks Cell? OU? MMW? I figured out PWM already. Only because I bought one.

[mobman]

Thanks for the reply on the efie question. Also for the thread links. Mr Smith's has my attention because my Gas4Free unit is in my '96 Jetta. Started lookig for a pre-built efie that I can fit into my gauge cluster.

Another neophite question: Is there an HHO glossary somewhere? I misplaced my decoder ring and am having a time with all of the acronyms being thrown around. Tero Cell? Amoeba Cell? Smacks Cell? OU? MMW? I figured out PWM already. Only because I bought one.

Lol im up there with you bud.

Some of them are wikipedias on HHO all by themself! lol OU = I owe you?? Mike...I owe you..you owe you....we all owe you?? We owe you thanks for bringing great knowledge to this thread sensei!

Anywho...i havent even hooked up my HHO generator yet but im running an EFIE by itself which most of the boys in this field dont like me doing...but I got an exhaust temp gauge setup so once that bad boy goes past the norm...im turning that sucker off! lol so far everyting is ok it seems though but im not going on the extreme with the adjustments.

[Farmercal]

Thanks for the reply on the efie question. Also for the thread links. Mr Smith's has my attention because my Gas4Free unit is in my '96 Jetta. Started lookig for a pre-built efie that I can fit into my gauge cluster.

Another neophite question: Is there an HHO glossary somewhere? I misplaced my decoder ring and am having a time with all of the acronyms being thrown around. Tero Cell? Amoeba Cell? Smacks Cell? OU? MMW? I figured out PWM already. Only because I bought one.

Tero Cell – Similar to a dry cell (Electrolyte inside the plates – not outside)
Amoeba Cell – Dry cell but small (same as above)
Smacks Cell – Wet bath cell that resides in a 4 inch PVC pipe container (Electrolyte around plates)
OU - Over Unity (getting more energy out of a process than was put into it – “Painless")
MMW – Millimeter per minutes per watt

[daddymikey1975]

just a couple other acronyms that we may throw around

NaOH = Sodim hydroxide... lye.. crystalized drain cleaner must be 100% pure.. used as caustic in the electrolyte
KOH = Potassium hydroxide another excellent caustic for electrolyte

if you have any other questions about our abbreviations, don't hesitate to ask.. we all knew as little as you currently do at one time...

spend a bunch of time reading... you'll learn a bunch
mike

[redrat100]

MMW – Millimeter per minutes per watt

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. "Millimeter per minutes per watt"? How does a linear measurement over time and power figure into all of this? I searched the forums for 'MMW' for an explanation but it did not return any hits because the term is too common. This leads me to believe that this calculation bears some significance to gas production because it is used so frequently.

Could a mentor please explain this concept in detail with an example calculation please?