Anybody else having exponential heat problems?

[Stratous]

I purchased the box from Lowes for $22 us. It is made by cantex and is found in the electrical section.

[liberybell]

I am also testing and I have several questions that may indicate my lack of experience, but I hope you can be patient and give me an answer or two:
1) About the size and shape of the electrodes: plate or tubing (we all know SS is the metal to use), thin or thick (thinking between 1/16" to 1/8")? If anybody here could provide (like in their signature) this information I think it will help a lot to all of us.
2) Spacing: Has anybody try to create a cell with different spaces like starting at 1/4" and reduce the space down to 1/16 on the farther in tube? My thinking is that this may help with the heat and yield same or better amount of hydrogen.
3) Housing: I saw glass, PVC, SS jars, etc. What material is best for housing?
4) Bubbler or no bubbler? How much safer is the unit with a bubbler versus one with just a flashback valve?

Thank you!

[Jason marsha]

I noticed a number of plates configured as +NN-NN+. If hydrogen is released at the cathode (-) then I thought -NN+NN- would be the ideal configuration for the maximum release of Hydrogen?

[Stratous]

I noticed a number of plates configured as +NN-NN+. If hydrogen is released at the cathode (-) then I thought -NN+NN- would be the ideal configuration for the maximum release of Hydrogen?

Please see this thread for your answer: http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=205

[ThaSatelliteGuy]

I too am having bad heat issues. I like the idea of a radiator-type setup. I live in south texas and have little need for a heater. I am considering connecting to my car's heater core and turning the knob inside to heat. This will blow cold A/C air across the heater core and should give really good cooling to the system. Should dissapate the heat fast enough to not really notice any difference inside the cabin either. A couple degrees wouldnt kill me since my A/C is WAY over powered anyway.

Any reason I shouldn't?

[Stratous]

If your running an alkaline as your electrolyte, then you best switch to baking soda before you start using the heater core.

[Allen]

... as a newbie still in the design phase I can't tell everyone how much I appreciate their comments. This site is a goldmine.

Heat is obviously a problem. Rather than circulate the corrosive electrolyte through a radiator, why not make a simple heat exchanger? Coil some 1/4-inch SS tubing, immerse it in the tank, and connect it via tubing to a small electric pump and small motorcycle radiator containing regular water and antifreeze?

... just a thought.

[daveczrn]

sounds like an excelent idea allen. thank you.

[scottyhho]

The cooling system sound ok but..... Why not install a small SS pump and run some hose in front of your radiator. Let the natural air flow cool your water. Also, get away from baking soda. Yes it works but it gets hot and the water gets nasty real quick. Buy some Robec drain cleaner from lowes for 7-8 bucks. Use just a small pinch and it will work better than two scoops of baking soda.

[Johnh]

I have a hard time understanding this aswell, seems like a waste of good plates to me
I guess that by increasing the distance between the plates that are actually in use, the resistance in the water increases since the electrons would have to travel further or something like that. If that is the case, then why is a plate needed at all? To slow down the flow of electrons even more?

I'm going to go with a +-+-... design until someone can explain why using neutral plates would increase production. If it gets too hot I suppose the best solution might be to cool it in some clever way.

I just posted this on another forum
it might help this question too

To make my question clearer, do we calculate voltage drop across the plates or across the cells (I call a 'cell' a gap across 2 plates)?

Does a 3 plate cell draw 6 volts or 4? And does a 3 plate cell with all 'active' plates (+-+) differ from a cell with a N instead of an active (+N-). I can't seem to get a clear explanation about this.

I thought that a single neutral plate between + and - would be + on one side and - on the other. Might affect production a bit, or might not produce at all, just absorb current. This is what I am trying to nail down. So many of us (me included) just do what someone says to do without really understanding why. I'm past that now, and want to UNDERSTAND how the process works, so I can make improvements with results I can predict with some accuracy.

I know I'm banging on about this a bit but it's important to me.

This is going to be a long explanation please forgive!
You have me confused now. first you say " I call a 'cell' a gap across 2 plates"
then
"Does a 3 plate cell "
It just cant be both

As "cell" seems to be a confusing term lets get a new term for one producing element in a generator. I'm going to call it a bay. I wanted to call it a compartment but its too long to type and one of the synonyms for compartment is bay and that term does not seem to be used at present in talking about HHO.

So a bay is the area between two plates or tubes with a voltage potential (or difference) across them. so
if we have +- we have one bay
if we have +-+ we have two bays
if we have -+- we have two bays
if we have +n- we have two bays
if we have +nnnnnn- we have 7 bays
if we have - - we have no bay(s) because there is no potential across the plates
if we have + + we have no bay(s) because there is no potential across the plates.

It isnt correct to say a cell "draws" voltage a cell just handles the voltage supplied to it. how it divides it between the bays depends entirely on how it is designed.
The way that a -n+ cell with 2 bays differs from a +-+ cell with two bays is in the potential or voltage through the bay.
Assuming a 12 volt supply in the first example we have 12/2bays = 6 volts across each bay. (read further I explain it more)
In the 2nd we assume that the 2 +plates are on a common wire so we have 12 volts across each bay because the positives are joined in parallel and both are 12 V. A -+- cell would also be the same 12 volts across each bay The -plates are joined together and to earth.
If two +- cells are joined together in series with a wire shown .......
we have +supply...........+-...........+-............-earth
it looks incorrect to have a - and + joined together, how can one be negative and one positive? this is exactly the same situation we have in a +n- cell. The answer is the plate or plates don't care what we call them, they only care what potential they see on the plate next to them. so the first - (closest to supply) sees it has a lower voltage than the first + and acts as a cathode. the second + although it is joined to the first - sees it has a higher voltage than its -plate partner and acts as an anode. So similarly one side of an N plate can act as an anode and one side a cathode without any conflict. If you get a multimeter and measure the voltage with the mm negative lead on the n plate (or the joined plates in the series unit) you will find +6v to the supply and -6v to the earth. A series connection divides the voltage but the same amps flow thru each cell. A parallel connection keeps the same voltage but the amps divide up between the cells


Less voltage on each bay will give less current flow and less heat so you either add neutral plates or wire cells in series.
Or start with no electrolyte in the water and add a grain at a time until you get the amp draw you want.
I suppose if you started by boiling the water in a kettle you wouldn't have to wait to see what the hot draw is like you would have it right from the start
John