Hi there, Great thread on HHO, Id like to join if you all dont mind.
Im new to the HHO thing and was pesamistic. I built a cheesy electrolyzer with pvc and 3 pcs of SS mesh. (-+-) and hooked it strait into my intake via vacuum line. Baking soda & a 10 amp draw. I went from 16 to 25mpg! And didnt monkey with any sensors. So now that Im a believer I too need to get the heat issue worked out. Im boiling and intoducing steam in 30 minutes.
Johnh pointed out that voltage will drop as I run the bays in series.
Im running -+- with 12volts. If I reverse polarity (swap my wires around) I will instantly have +-+ this should give me two 6volt bays.
2 big questions: where does the heat come from? Volts or amps?
What produces more gas? Volts or Amps?
Wattage = Volts x Amps
Maybe watts are the heat culprit.
I can keep my 10amps if I lower my volts.
voltage creates the heat. HHO production starts at around 1.5 volts and does not increase anymore at around 2 volts. Any extra volts is used to heat water. I have used a ballast resistor to drop voltage from 12 to 6 with good results. You can get one at Auto Zone for around 6 bucks and hook it inline on the positive. It also adds a little more protection to the unit because if the resistor gets to hot it will blow and shut the unit down. Any old Dodge owner can tell you carry a spare. This is cheaper than a PWM
Thanks alot. Well Im ready to build a new unit now and will design it for lower voltage. Other than a resistor what do you think of neutral plates or series design for lowering voltage?
And if I run my plates in series (+-+-+-)
Isnt that the same thing as (+-----)
Ive read that hydrogen is released at the negative and oxygen is released at the positive. Anybody agree?
Senior Member
Amps create heat'Originally Posted by F150
Amperage is the amount of current you are using.
Voltage is the "speed" at which it travels, through the line, and through induction.
In truth, we are not producing anything, but we are altering the electronic structure of the hydrogen atoms (through intentional electrolysis).
Once we change the negative hydrogen atoms to a positive charge, the laws of nature cause virtually everything in this hydro soup, to repell from each other, and the only way they can do that, is to get outside of the water, as vapors.
This is called the dissassociation of water!
Hydogen is naturally a negative charged atom, which take on the added electrons of the catalyst, changing it to a positive charge. hydrogen has by far the heavier amount of electrons (being 2:1 over oxygen), so it attracts to the negative pole.
Having far more atoms than the oxygen, it pulls to the negative pole (opposites attract), which causes the oxygen to repell both the hydrogen, and the positive poles.
The oxygen is uneffected by the catalyst electrons, and remains positive, but it is not attracted to the positive pole (it repels the positive pole, and the now positive hydrogen atoms).
Oxygen is not produced by the the positive pole, as well as hydrogen is not produced by the negative pole.
Both elements were there the entire time, however the absorbsion of the electrons, which altered the hydrogens electronic structure, causes all of these atoms to repell, away from each other.
Matter can not be created, or destroyed! But, it can be altered.
I think one of the most confusing things here is a basic missunderstanding that these elements are consumed by being burned. Gasoline burns, and leaves carbon in its place.
We are trained to belive that the fuel is consumed, and therefore is now gone!
Both oxygen, and hydrogen are burned, and they leave oxygen, and hydrogen behind.
Remember that matter can not be created, or destroyed!
Both are natural elements, and all matter is made up of elements (usually in compounds).
Basic elements, remain elements (but alterations to those elements, are effected, by the burning)
Burning the atoms, hydrogen returns to its naturally negative state, and rejoins with oxygen in the tail pipe, as water.
When gasoline is burned, it is expelled as Carbon monoxide , as it is a carbon based (fossil) fuel.
Gasoline is a compound, not a natural element. So its elemental structure is changed, breaking the bond of it's basic building blocks, but it's raw elements are left behind.
Senior Member
You are right, it is wattage that creates heat... it is also what creates the HHO.
If you have a cell +- you have 12v across the entire cell. 2v to create HHO 10v creating heat. Current is determined by the amount of electrolyte in solution and also determines how fast it will heat up. Lets say for our example that we have enough electrolyte to cause it to heat up to 180f in 10 minutes.
If you take and change the plate configuration to +NNNNN- you now have 2v across each cell (there are now 6 cells). Using the same electrolyte solution as earlier you would now heat up in a couple of hours.
What the above examples show is that both voltage and current play a role in the development of heat... hence wattage creates heat.
The best thing you can do to reduce heat is design your cell such that you minimize the stray currents that aren't being used for making HHO. This means sealing off the edge of the plates. Also sealing off the feed lines that sit in solution as well... I had several meltdowns at the terminal lugs until I heat-shrinked my leads inside the cell. This was due to the stray current between the leads themselves.
My next step is to play with a PWM. Not for finding the magic frequency, but for controlling the amperage as the cell heats up. That way I can use the cell for long trips.
--
Some days I get the sinking feeling that Orwell was an optimist!
One thing that I have found that makes the most difference to the heat problem is the electrolyte. If your are having heat problems try cleaning the unit and then start with only distilled water. Add electrolyte with a dropper. You will be surprised how little of an amount of eletrolyte will make a large amperage change.
Member
Where is everbody getting the radiators? Ive looked and looked for a SS one and cant find one, I guess plastic is my next choice?
what are you guys using? salt, baking soda, drano?
Ive been using sea salt.
Im almost done with my 6 plate 5 bay 2.4V cell. And am open to electrolyte suggestions and amp draw suggestions.
Thanks everyone!
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