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Thread: PWM for less heat in your cell

  1. #31

    Default

    The only thing a PWM will do is control the eletricity going to the plates. The reason folks choose to experiment with them is that it can help (in some cases) control temperature.

    You may notice that after a while of powering you cell on the bench or in your car, the water temp rises and so does the gas production..After you reach a certain temp and amperage, production begins to drop.

    By regulating the electricity, it will help you control run away temps, especially in smaller generators. This comes at the cost of lost gas production though.

    There is a necessary balance of things such as electrolyte mixture....volume of electrolyte in the generator....the ammount of electricty in the plates....the water temp............and probably a few other things I have yet to learn about, but what I have learned so far is that the PWM will only drop gas production and temperature as a result.

    IMHO, if you have the available space, use a larger generator cell to hold more electrolyte. It will help with the temp without offsetting the necessary balance of things.
    "You don't always have to know ALL the answers, but you do need to know where to find them."

  2. #32
    motoxfun Guest

    Default PWM use

    Christopher you are evidently using the same electrolite.
    To make the best use of the PWM increase the electrolite so the amperage is what you want to run, and you get there at half of the speed pot setting. How the pwm works is at low settings you get a bump of power in miliseconds, then a time frame of no power, then another bump and so on. The higher you set your speed the shorter time frame of no power so you end up with using the same power. The gas will release faster, and allow the production quicker as you allow the gas to flow from the surface of your generator if you use lower setting on your pot.

  3. #33
    motoxfun Guest

    Default pwm

    I purchased a dc motor controller, while I had to come up with the remaining electronics to run it, I now have 200 amps for 1 minute and 100 amps constant, if I want it. I have had it from 30 to 50 amps, I have good production at 30 amps, but still need more conductivity in my wate solution to maintain the 30 amps and do it at half speed or less. Try Kelly controller, they are in China, they are thepeople that made the controller in the electric scooter I bought for teh controller I have.

  4. #34
    daveczrn Guest

    Default

    i have that you get the best production (atleast with NaOH) at about 25% solution mix while using a PWM. I do not have a PWM to test this with though.

    dave

  5. #35
    bobcampbell Guest

    Default

    I have not used a PWM but I'm considering it. Not for better output but for the ability to make the dielectric solution stronger than I would normally like to make it. A strong solution would give instant cold running HHO production. This would be advantageous during short trips that never get the water hot enough to produce good volume. When the cells warm up you can use the PWM to turn down the efficiency so that the electrical system can keep up with the current demand and also to keep every thing from a melt down.

  6. #36
    bobcampbell Guest

    Default Increase the electrolite

    [QUOTE=motoxfun;4634]Christopher you are evidently using the same electrolite.
    To make the best use of the PWM increase the electrolite so the amperage is what you want to run, and you get there at half of the speed pot setting. QUOTE]


    Yes, Moxofun that's exactly right. It gives you a flexable range so that you can save gas on those short trips the the store as well as a 1000 mile trip. What would be nice is if you coud set the desired amps and the PWM would self adjust as the water heats up and the amps begin to flow.

    I think Zero Fossil Fuel may be on to something with his self tuning tank circuit, but the PWM is not a tank circuit. I think a lot of people are expecing it to act as a tank circuit increasing the amount of gas produced but since there is no coil that's just not the case.

  7. #37
    mec1995 Guest

    Default Crazy!

    Quote Originally Posted by bagrman View Post
    Sorry to say that pwmpower can't keep up. I ordered mine a month ago and nothing yet. the price went from 139 to 189 since then.
    Latr
    $189??? That's crazy man. Build your own or have someone do it for you.
    Parts for a pwm circuit cost maybe $15 buck if you use the one with the LM324N op-amp and the power mosfet.

  8. #38
    mec1995 Guest

    Default PWM circuit diagram

    Quote Originally Posted by xjguy View Post
    hate to hijack this thread but does anyone know where i can find plans to a
    build a pwm?
    Sure. Goto ZeroFossilFuel's website: http://www.alt-nrg.org

    He has also a couple YouTube videos to show you how to built the thing...

    -mec1995

  9. #39
    mec1995 Guest

    Thumbs up

    [QUOTE=donsimpson12;887]ok.. I put my unit together today..

    It sure doesn't produce enough HHO to do anything, but it does product around the same amount as those that are on YouTube, ect.. hmmm..

    QUOTE]


    The secret for a good working HHO booster is to use the correct materials.

    1. Use #316 perforated stainless steel. Roll strips of it into cilinders, the length of your reservoir you're using. Between 9" and 12" is excellent. Another benefit of the perforated ss is it also uses less current and hence less heat. #314 is also good but a little more difficult to work with.

    2. Don't use tap water. Use distilled water with a bit of Sodium Hydroxide (the stuff used in water softeners) as an electrolyte.

    3. Use a decent amount of these cilinders (different diameters). Use 5 or six of them. Plans on how to make them are available on YouTube. The videos are about 9 minutes long, so bring a beer.

    4. One thing to remember is to use a bubbler. It prevents explosions. If you don't use a bubbler, ensure your unit has 'safety' cap that can blow off in case of exessive pressure. (that may or may not happen).

    5. Don't give up! Keep making them and different models until you're happy. At todays price at the pump any percentage saved is an improvement!

    If your car has a carburator you don't need an EFIE. The EFIE is only needed for fuel injected cars. A decent PWM is a requirement in my opinion. The one posted on http://www.alt-nrg.org is pretty good. It allows you to adjust the Frequency, Duty Cycle, and the Current Limiting.

    -mec1995
    Last edited by mec1995; 08-10-2008 at 01:30 AM.

  10. #40
    Sockfilter Guest

    Default

    The secret for a good working HHO booster is to use the correct materials.

    1. Use #316 perforated stainless steel. Roll strips of it into cilinders, the length of your reservoir you're using. Between 9" and 12" is excellent. Another benefit of the perforated ss is it also uses less current and hence less heat. #314 is also good but a little more difficult to work with.

    2. Don't use tap water. Use distilled water with a bit of Sodium Hydroxide (the stuff used in water softeners) as an electrolyte.

    3. Use a decent amount of these cilinders (different diameters). Use 5 or six of them. Plans on how to make them are available on YouTube. The videos are about 9 minutes long, so bring a beer.

    4. One thing to remember is to use a bubbler. It prevents explosions. If you don't use a bubbler, ensure your unit has 'safety' cap that can blow off in case of exessive pressure. (that may or may not happen).

    5. Don't give up! Keep making them and different models until you're happy. At todays price at the pump any percentage saved is an improvement!

    If your car has a carburator you don't need an EFIE. The EFIE is only needed for fuel injected cars. A decent PWM is a requirement in my opinion. The one posted on http://www.alt-nrg.org is pretty good. It allows you to adjust the Frequency, Duty Cycle, and the Current Limiting.

    -mec1995[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Mec, www.alt-nrg.org seems to have it together...
    And that a PWM is a must. A PWM will not increase your brown gas output, but what it will allow you to do is mix your electrolyte in a manor that will give you great brown gas results upon initial cold start and short runs. Then the PWM will limit the amp draw on longer runs, thus helping with heat excess amp draw and alternator overload.

    For example, say you have a electrolyte solution that will give you 1liter/per minute of gas on initial startup, drawing 10 amps.

    After 15 minutes you are getting 1.2L/per minute at 15 amps.

    The amps will keep climbing (thermal runaway) but gas output will not double like the amp draw will.

    **those numbers I just pulled out of the air, but do show the idea***

    Eventually we will need the PWM to limit the amp draw which directly relates to heat issues.

    I dont understand how we are suppose to get the most efficiency out of our HHO generators if we dont use PWM. As it seems to me you will either suffer on the cold starts and shorts trips w/ a weak electrolyte solution, or start blowing fuses and melting PVC after a short time cause the solution is too strong to handle longer runs.

    Just my thoughts,

    Sock

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