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Thread: PWM for less heat in your cell

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,174

    Question

    [QUOTE=mec1995;7866]
    Quote Originally Posted by donsimpson12 View Post
    ok.. I put my unit together today..

    It sure doesn't produce enough HHO to do anything, but it does product around the same amount as those that are on YouTube, ect.. hmmm..

    QUOTE]


    The secret for a good working HHO booster is to use the correct materials.

    1. Use #316 perforated stainless steel. Roll strips of it into cilinders, the length of your reservoir you're using. Between 9" and 12" is excellent. Another benefit of the perforated ss is it also uses less current and hence less heat. #314 is also good but a little more difficult to work with.

    2. Don't use tap water. Use distilled water with a bit of Sodium Hydroxide (the stuff used in water softeners) as an electrolyte.

    3. Use a decent amount of these cilinders (different diameters). Use 5 or six of them. Plans on how to make them are available on YouTube. The videos are about 9 minutes long, so bring a beer.

    4. One thing to remember is to use a bubbler. It prevents explosions. If you don't use a bubbler, ensure your unit has 'safety' cap that can blow off in case of exessive pressure. (that may or may not happen).

    5. Don't give up! Keep making them and different models until you're happy. At todays price at the pump any percentage saved is an improvement!

    If your car has a carburator you don't need an EFIE. The EFIE is only needed for fuel injected cars. A decent PWM is a requirement in my opinion. The one posted on http://www.alt-nrg.org is pretty good. It allows you to adjust the Frequency, Duty Cycle, and the Current Limiting.

    -mec1995
    Youtube link please.

    Thanks,

    BoyntonStu

  2. #42
    sp1r0 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelong View Post
    I built a pwm that would go from 1% to 99%, 20 hz to 200,000 hz. I played with that thing for about 4 hours, outputting every concievable waveform, watching on my oscilloscope.

    My conclusion is there is no "sweet spot" and the only use for pwm is to limit power, and output generation.

    I can limit power a boat load cheaper by changing the amount of potassium hydroxide in the electrolyte.

    HHO works, pwm not so much.
    Can we see that circuit you built,sounds interesting. Especially the different waveforms. Sounds like a function generator.

  3. #43
    HHO King Guest
    Try these custom built units with gauges-

    http://www.extremehho.com

  4. #44
    HHO King Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bagrman View Post
    Sorry to say that pwmpower can't keep up. I ordered mine a month ago and nothing yet. the price went from 139 to 189 since then.
    Latr


    These are just as nice as the ones at pwmpower ut less expensive.

    http://www.extremehho.com

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    28

    An alternative to PWM

    I was frustrated with the pwm's so I referred to ohms law for an alternative. The point of using a pwm is to limit/control the current and control thermal runaway, correct? Thermal runaway happens when the cell voltage is above 2+-vdc (excess vdc creates heat)-->heat goes up-->current goes up-->heat goes up-->etc...This is basically a water heater. Ohms law dictates to have a fixed current you need a fixed resistance & voltage. We already have a steady voltage supply; 14.7vdc from the alternator. Cell resistance varies based on heat, cell design and electrolyte type & amount. The cell can also have fixed resistance. So how to "fix" the current without a pwm? I'm using a 1 ohm 225w resistor in series with the cell. Eagle research's Hyzor manual had a one line reference to putting a brute force cell in line with a existing load; ie Lights, heater, etc. Why not create your own load, you're doing that anyway with the cell. With a adj. 1 ohm resistor set to .7 ohms and the cell (parallel plates) electrolyte maximized, I get @ 14 amps "fixed". I could short the cell out and the current would never runaway. The voltage drop at the resistor is @10.5 vdc. This leaves @ 4 vdc at the cell. Depending on the cell, one of my cells run @ 3 vdc. 3 vdc at 14amps = 42 watts (total watts used from alternator = 205) The cell has never heated up (ambient cooling) and I get the same current under all conditions, so far. Current makes HHO, correct? It sure is a heck of a lot simpler and cheaper. The resistor can also be used as a heater for the cell; that's one of my future endeavors. Instead of 7 plates in series to get the desired 2+- vdc, you can use as much plate surface area as you can cram into the cell case and maintain the base current at all plates. Works for me. I still need to build a gas volume measurer thingy from old pop bottles to quantify my efficiency (mmw). Any questions?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    28
    Almost forgot, most 1 ohm power resistors are under $20 from Newark.com (compare to a pwm price). I also hooked in parallel a 1 ohm and 5 ohm resistors to get a .8 ohm "controller". You could also try two 1 ohmers in parallel = .5 ohms + .3 ohms of the cell = .8 ohms and @ 18amps. The cell volts go to @ 5 vdc with this config, but at least the cell might maintain a little heat for better efficiency.

  7. #47
    solo33 Guest

    Pwm

    Hell no, Randohr. No way. It just ain't sound engineering to replace 26 thousand transistors, 14 heat sinks and a handful of PC poards with one resistor? Something just has to be wrong here.

  8. #48
    scratch1676 Guest
    I dont post here much but would like to input when I think I can contribute. I bought a pwm off ebay also. I bought the smallest amperage one available and removed the mosfet and crappy little heatsink. I made another small board and installed big daddy mosfets and big daddy heatsink and high output fan and installed that in a seperate box. Why a seperate box because if you use a adequate fan and heatsink , it would not fit under your dash plus it will make some noise. I have pushed 75 amps thru it and the air off the heatsink was warm but not hot.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    27
    Could you post a picture of exactly how you wired these resistors together, and where you put them please? I would like to try this but don't quite follow what you did (not an electronics type). I'm assuming that you put it between your battery positive and the hho unit? Sorry for the dumb questions. Thanks, John

    Quote Originally Posted by Randohr View Post
    Almost forgot, most 1 ohm power resistors are under $20 from Newark.com (compare to a pwm price). I also hooked in parallel a 1 ohm and 5 ohm resistors to get a .8 ohm "controller". You could also try two 1 ohmers in parallel = .5 ohms + .3 ohms of the cell = .8 ohms and @ 18amps. The cell volts go to @ 5 vdc with this config, but at least the cell might maintain a little heat for better efficiency.

  10. #50
    scratch1676 Guest
    here are a few pics. I am going to be making my last mosfet box this afternoon and I will make pics as I go.

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