The Green Home Heater

[SmartScarecrow]

Sorry, two different "companies" come up with exactly the same product with the same specs, and decide to market it the exact same way ie subscription service??

I call BS, SNAKEOIL, CON-MEN, FLIM-FLAM, and whatever other names you wish to add.

eventually a standards organization will be available to validate vendor claims ... there are honorable people working in this direction now ... see http://www.ihhof.org for details ...

[sovereignenergy]

yeah, there is obviously something fishy with the numbers ... the performance levels indicated are not consistent with brute force electrolysis ... if you are not employing brute force electrolysis and have not disclosed your method so that others can replicate your technique, shame on you ...

if I have source power of 110vAC at 6 amps, roughly 700 watts, and I then rectify that source output and send the rectified juice to my 65 plate device, I can measure about 138vDC at my electrolyzer (a bit more if I use a 4000uF cap) and can pull roughly 6 amps ... there is some modest loss to heat at the rectifier but at these low power levels Its pretty hard to measure ... I just assume I am losing a little bit because the rectifier do gets a bit warm ..

the kick in the head is the output volume ...

my device is probably one of the more efficient field capable devices I have ever seen in operation ... I have seen some in the lab that are bit more efficient than mine, but not by much ... as it is a hand built prototype of fairly advanced design and construction it is quite a bit more efficient than the typical commercial offering ... but best I could do with roughly 700 watts of input power would be about 4 lpm ...

now granted, most folks do not go to the lengths I do to get as accurate as possible a measure of output performance ... I literally run my gas output through a dryer and an ice water bubbler so that the gas I measure is never hotter than ambient air and contains no steam or water vapor ...

it could be that if I measured the raw output of my device after it had a chance to get well warmed up, I might get a reading of 6.5 lpm ... but I would never have thought to discuss a reading that I knew was not a true indication of real performance and would toss it out as being unreliable ...

BUT, even 4 lpm of gas output is adequate to run a pretty decent HHO torch ... as a matter of fact, it would be quite possible to use this much flow to maintain a pretty stable, if small, flame on as many as 4 .020 orifices at the same time ... so there is no question but that 110vAC at 6 amps is capable of producing a useful quantity of HHO ...

but converting this little bit of HHO into 32kBTU of heat output is yet another neat trick I would need to see in action to believe ... this sounds just too good to be true ... normally, when you are presented with an offer that is too good be true, there is a long list of exceptions or something about making a deal with the devil involved ...

so I would have to say, "show me" ... these are some pretty spectacular claims ... spectacular claims require spectacular proof ...

First of all i am suprised that everyone seems to want to crucify me! I haven't charged any money for anything to anyone! I was only announcing a PRE- launch for affiliates to sign up. The key word is PRE-launch

2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

3. The green home heater is a new website yes!
www.sovereignenergysolutions.com is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"
sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

4. The goal and hope of the green home heater is 2 fold

a. Yes to make some $$ to further R&D in hopes to bring more hho technologies truely to market. Many of you guys on here have experienced dramatic sales drops in hho products due to Gas prices dropping but you still have traffic so our thought was why not utilize that traffic make everyone some $$ to further this technology.

b. design a Home heating product with HHO that the average joe could truely build, have quality electrolysers,be safe(no bronze wool stuffed tubes), and achieve very good results. This one was a challenge, very much so!
scarecrow this on is for you!
What is the greatest drawback to heating with naural gas or propane or any of the other heating fuels for homes?
What dramatic difference do we have with HHO vs those above in terms of efficiency of heating air?
Hint: think plummel a natural gas furnace does what?
2nd hint: emissions

5. as far as price goes! 69.99 retail for access to plans, Step by Step videos ect.. This price is not set in stone!

The goal here is to get the hho technology TO THE AVERAGE CONSUMER.
Question 1:
If we charged $20 with a 50% commision to affiliates would they promote the site for a 10 bucks a sale?

Question 2: We could make the price a very nominal price just to cover bandwidth and servers and up keep ($4.99 maybe). But would the site go viral and truely get the traffic and get the exposure and knowledge to the general public?

finally i hope i haven't missed any questions here if so i would be happy to answer and discuss any questions.

[SmartScarecrow]

2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

well, whether its 700 watts supplied by 100v @ 7a or 7v @ 100a, 700w is still 700w and 6.5 lpm produced with 700w of brute force is a pretty slick trick to pull off.

3. is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"

sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

Your depiction of historical events is not accurate. Sid Young was one of 22 original members of the design team that contributed to the development of what came to be known as the "EBN Dry Cell".

His initial design was rejected as was mine. Design elements of both his and mine were integrated along with contributions from many others who refined the design. Sid got into an unfortunate disagreement with another member of the design team and decided to go it on his his own.

It was always our intent that the design we came up with would be made public domain so we said nothing when Sid quite literally put his name on the device and sold it in competition with EBN. As a group, the members of the EBN team wish Sid well and hope he continues to improve on the design.

Your depiction would insinuate that EBN in some way treated Sid unfairly or stole something from him. Nothing could be further from the truth. For quite some time after Sid left EBN, we provided him with access to the unique gaskets required to help him along. We have made a point of dealing fairly with everyone we deal with.

Frankly, your statement is slanderous and cannot go unchallenged.

[sovereignenergy]

I signed up under the free membership and can let everyone know to NOT WASTE YOUR TIME!

Ok so you are using a converted PC power supply (ie changing the 120AC to 12v DC.....) To get 700W.. or 12v @ 58.3amp. Most PC power supplies will not do that. In fact it will take 3 to get that.

Shane it is pre launch ! we aren't taking money yet!

here is the specs on the power supply
12 v at 19 amps X 4

[sovereignenergy]

2nd : on amps for you scarecrow
The unit has a 110v power supply converting AC to DC
your running about 55-60 DC amps to the hydrogen cell.

well, whether its 700 watts supplied by 100v @ 7a or 7v @ 100a, 700w is still 700w and 6.5 lpm produced with 700w of brute force is a pretty slick trick to pull off.

3. is not and have been manufacturing dry cell's for aroud 2 years and was the original supplier to people such as "the sid cell" whom EBN copied from to be what is known as the "EBN DRY CELL"

sovereign energy solutions has been sitting in the background on the manufacturing side for quit some time while others brand the unit we have been making for a long long time.

Your depiction of historical events is not accurate. Sid Young was one of 22 original members of the design team that contributed to the development of what came to be known as the "EBN Dry Cell".

His initial design was rejected as was mine. Design elements of both his and mine were integrated along with contributions from many others who refined the design. Sid got into an unfortunate disagreement with another member of the design team and decided to go it on his his own.

It was always our intent that the design we came up with would be made public domain so we said nothing when Sid quite literally put his name on the device and sold it in competition with EBN. As a group, the members of the EBN team wish Sid well and hope he continues to improve on the design.

Your depiction would insinuate that EBN in some way treated Sid unfairly or stole something from him. Nothing could be further from the truth. For quite some time after Sid left EBN, we provided him with access to the unique gaskets required to help him along. We have made a point of dealing fairly with everyone we deal with.

Frankly, your statement is slanderous and cannot go unchallenged.

I am not insinuating unfair treatment of anyone.
I am well aware of the situation between ebn and sid and in fact the single stock share that he recieved he took as an insult from ebn.(sid's words not mine)
when you guys were developing your dry cell with EBN sid was using my cell design as the origin i argued over changing my design with him long before ebn existed. he joined up with or helped found ebn if i remember right (not sure) but then came back to me as his supplier and eventually used my design after whatever the fallout was with the EBN member. I was sid's supplier and dropped shipped for all his customers. he and the ebn supplier ran out of scrap steel and could not maintain the cheap plates in the beginning.

all that doesn't even matter to me.
I have been building dry cells for more than 2 yrs now stable and very high output 5 10 20 50 LPM.
water electrolysis is simple producing high output hho is easy too. The hard part is putting it into useful products and getting those products mainstream!
we should have a phone conversation scarecrow.
You just might be suprised

[sovereignenergy]

Ok so you are using a $150ish power supply..... and......

How are you getting 9+MMW?

honestly i havent been concerned as much with mmw.
cold start is around 7. comething mmw and climbs up as it warms up.

the important thing is watts. im sure cell efficiency will come into play later.

The efficiency that matter most right now is heating efficiency (watts)

we have been getting 300-350 F on the hot air output
I want to be clear on something
The is a space heater with hho not a whole house heater.
the next stage is to convert existing NG furnaces
and 3rd stage is a whole house heater from HHO but that is gonna take some serious capital and R&D UL approvals and all kinds of beaurocrasy and regulation to get through.
its going to be similar the the gestapo epa rules that currently prevent us from predictible gains due to the learning consumer car ECU!

[jericoriver]

The power supply is rated at input/ 115 volts 12 amps. Thats 1380 watts of power consumed to produce 6.5 lpm. not 700 watts.
6500/1380=4.7 mmw
assuming the power supply is loaded,and the LPM is measured accurate.
1380 watts of electric heat is 4,710 BTU's ,If your getting 32,000 BTU, thats a COP of 6.78.
COP=Coefficient of performance.A cop of 1 is 3,413 btu output/1KW input, heatpumps usually range from 2 thru 4.5, with the 4.5's being geothermal.

[sovereignenergy]

The power supply is rated at input/ 115 volts 12 amps. Thats 1380 watts of power consumed to produce 6.5 lpm. not 700 watts.
6500/1380=4.7
assuming the power supply is loaded and the LPM is measured accurate.
1380 watts of electric heat is 4,710 BTU's ,If your getting 32,000 BTU thats a COP of 6.78

we are oly using the 12v rails of the power supply right now.
i was trying to hint to scarecrow in an earlier post of how we can get the high btu's using hho. so i will go ahead and try to explain the best i can.

on all other flame furnaces they burn a fuel such as natural gas and have to be vented through the roof like your NG HVAC units because of harmful emissions like carbon monoxide right.

with HHO we don't have to!
so basically you take into account the high heat reaction of the hho flame to different materials and the fact we DO NOT HAVE TO VENT THE EHAUST FROM THE FLAME!
and you can now SUPER HEAT a meterial to allow higher volumes of cold air to be SUPER heated.

hopefully that makes sense to you guys.

[sovereignenergy]

Ok so you are using a $150ish power supply?

actually we have found a 850w power supply you can get retail for $60.00 that works great for this

[SmartScarecrow]

am not insinuating unfair treatment of anyone.
I am well aware of the situation between ebn and sid and in fact the single stock share that he recieved he took as an insult from ebn.(sid's words not mine)
when you guys were developing your dry cell with EBN sid was using my cell design as the origin i argued over changing my design with him long before ebn existed. he joined up with or helped found ebn if i remember right (not sure) but then came back to me as his supplier and eventually used my design after whatever the fallout was with the EBN member. I was sid's supplier and dropped shipped for all his customers. he and the ebn supplier ran out of scrap steel and could not maintain the cheap plates in the beginning.

we should have a phone conversation scarecrow.
You just might be suprised



before there was an "EBN Dry Cell", before there was a "Sid Cell" there was a proof of concept prototype assembled by me ... yes it was indeed assembled from scrap steel for as little in development costs as possible, because I was paying out my own pocket for the materials and fabrication ... I published a YouTube video in June of 2008 as a "teaser" that even named Sid as a design team member in the credits ... at the time, he was still with EBN ... as far as I know, this was the first example of this particular design constructed and it became the proof of concept for both EBN's and Sid's products ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGBtUqQcAY

upon formation of the corporation, everyone who participated in the original design effort was rewarded with one share of EBN stock, myself included ... to the best of my knowledge, less than 50 shares of EBN stock have been issued so I am not sure why anyone would consider this to be an insult ... I felt honored to be recognized for my contribution ...

many of the players within EBN, myself included, had fabricated devices based on Tero Ranta's publised pattern as early as 2006 ... so none of us had the large brass ones to claim the device as "our invention" ... it was simply our interpretation of a well known, reliable design ...

our efforts were focused on safe operation and ease of mass production ... our intent was to influence other experimenters in the field and get them to move away from what we considered to be the rather hazardous designs that were common just 12 months ago ... in all things we had set out to do, we have succeeded so far ... and to date, we have not had to lie to or cheat anyone to do it ... but then our expectations were modest ...

I hope this helps to set the record straight to your satisfaction and that you will not persist in spreading what amounts to hearsay gossip about things you really do not know ...

you and I agree that reliable products that perform as advertised are critical to advancing this fledgling industry into the mainstream ... however, it is my opinion that our industry is at a fragile transitional state and that products that do not live up to consumer expectation could hurt the industry as a whole ...

I can be reached by email at SmartScarecrow@gmail.com ... I keep a pretty brutal schedule but am available by phone ... EBN's phone number is 703-842-3005 ... I am on ext 5100 ... but it typically ends up in voice mail as I am rarely sitting at desk waiting for a phone call ... but I do return calls at least once a day, more often when I can ...