Vacuum - Vented Or Sealed Units?

[RMForbes]

The problem with applying vacuum to a HHO cell is that it lowers the boiling point of the electrolyte. We do not want it to boil. I added a valve between the bubbler and vacuum port on my intake to limit the vacuum to the system. I also vented the cell with a small tube that allows air to bubble up from the bottom of the cell. The vent has a one way check valve installed to prevent any water from syphoning out. I adjust the vacuum to the bubbler using the valve until I notice air being drawn into the vent and then back it off a bit. This needs only to be done at idle because that is when the vacuum is highest. I also tee off the output of the bubbler and run a hose to the intake just in front of the throttle body. Another one way check valve prevents air being sucked into the vacuum port at idle and allows HHO gas to flow into the intake when engine is operating at highway speeds and no vacuum is present.

[Omega]

Aha. No wonder my bubblers kept ripping apart. (No joke -- I just didn't know this piece of vital information.)

So where am I to put the vent? How big of a hole? Any other special rules?

I think you misunderstood what Stratous was saying. I think he meant if there were no openings at all in an HHO generator then it would explode. If you are feeding HHO gas to a vacuum line or intake, your generator IS NOT sealed.

Your bubblers are giving up because they aren't able to handle the vacuum from the manifold. They would hold up if you ran your HHO line to the intake or if they were made from stouter material.

[Stratous]

I hope omega read this before he started drilling vent holes. I certainly didnt intend for my post to be misleading in anyway.

[Omega]

I hope omega read this before he started drilling vent holes. I certainly didnt intend for my post to be misleading in anyway.

I knew what you meant (I think) I think volomike might have misunderstood.

Adding a vent just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It seems that all it would accomplish is diluting the HHO and causing a vacuum leak. From watching Zero Fossil Fuels and others on YouTube, it would seem important to seal the unit well. I've made sure that my generator and bubbler don't leak so that the unit doesn't draw in air. I had a VW bug once that had a manifold leak and it ran so badly it was almost undriveable. It seems like the same condition could occur from a vented HHO enclosure.

I still haven't seen any of the major dudes adding vents; if someone knows of one, put up a link....

[rmptr]

Well, it's the water4gas that advises the bubbler on the cell...

...and someone just said it was water4gas that is advising to inject hho into fuel line?

I'm getting confused now!

I think a bubbler on a cell is a good idea.
It should be adjusted to minimum flow, perhaps.

AND there should be a bubbler of the type used to prevent backflash into the cell, also.

Best

[lou]

A friend introduced my to HHO through use of the water4gas method. I've posted some pics and video around here somewhere. The SS plate model really have my interest.
The first we built (he built) I watched with skepticism.
Has a tube to the bottom to introduce air I believe to dislodge the HHO another tube out the top to a jar of water. Anyway it's been one weird journey from there.

[Ronjinsan]

OK lets sum up....closed container, what do we want out of it? Gas produced by splitting the water molecule! Right so far? Apply a vacuum.....gas is sucked out, if there are no leaks....ONLY gas will be sucked out. Vacuum is constant so it doesnt make any difference. Now....add vent and we introduce air to the container which lowers the constant vacuum at the manifold due to there being a leak! Any takers??

[Omega]

OK lets sum up....closed container, what do we want out of it? Gas produced by splitting the water molecule! Right so far? Apply a vacuum.....gas is sucked out, if there are no leaks....ONLY gas will be sucked out. Vacuum is constant so it doesnt make any difference. Now....add vent and we introduce air to the container which lowers the constant vacuum at the manifold due to there being a leak! Any takers??

I'll go for that! Exactly!

[Omega]

Well, it's the water4gas that advises the bubbler on the cell...

...and someone just said it was water4gas that is advising to inject hho into fuel line?

I'm getting confused now!

I think a bubbler on a cell is a good idea.
It should be adjusted to minimum flow, perhaps.

AND there should be a bubbler of the type used to prevent backflash into the cell, also.

Best

I just checked the Water4Gas info and BINGO, you are right, they show what they call a "Bubbler Cap" although there is no water to bubble through.

The Water4Gas people have done a lot of good work in putting together an (expensive!) manual. But, I think they are off the mark in putting a "leak valve" in the HHO generator enclosure. It just doesn't make good engineering sense.

In addition to the "leak valve", they also recommend at least 4 feet of tube between the HHO enclosure and the manifold vacuum attaching point. I think they advise that because the plastic lid they use most likely won't hold up to the vacuum that the engine will subject it to. The best way to deal with this is to make a 1/8" thick polycarbonate (Lexan) stiffener to go over the plastic lid. This will keep the lid from breaking under vacuum, so you don't need to relieve the vacuum with a "leak valve".

It will be interesting to see how far HHO applications evolve this year. It's really great fun working the concept and hardware (as long as things go well...!)

[justaguy]

I have seen generators with a one way check valve on the top letting air in. Most don't have it but it seems like it would help. It looks like if you had air (gas) going out air would have to be coming in. I guess then the air is separated from the water by the electrolyte.