What I should be looking for in a cell

[punkdgeek]

After researching many online resources regarding hho production, these are the requirements for a hho cell:

1. Larger surface area increases efficiency
2. Pumping gas out increases efficiency
3. Higher electrolyte concentration increases efficiency (to a point)
4. Using a PWM or resonance increases efficiency
5. High frequency acoustics increase efficiency
6. There is an optimal temperature range for solution

Larger surface area increases efficiency
When using plates, more plates in a + 4n - 4n + array seems to produce most efficient production. Why use plates though when more surface area can be created using stainless steel bearings? I propose using 1/8" or 1/4" stainless steel bearings on the + (anode) side of electrodes. This would create the most surface area in a three dimensional space and therefore should create more hho.

Pumping gas out increases efficiency
Under vacuum, it seems, there is more hho production. I believe this is because the gas's density versus water decreases due to the vacuum. Basically, the gas needs to be moved away from the anode to facilitate more hho production. Therefore, using a pump to move the electrolyte solution over the anode should coax the gas away from the anode and create more hho.

Higher electrolyte concentration increases efficiency (to a point)
Batteries seem to work very well in certain temperature ranges and fail miserably in other temps. This is due to the electrolyte inside the battery being able to move electrons between the anode and cathode. The same is true for a hho cell. I have not found a formula yet regarding NaOH concentration, H20 purity, and temperature versus resistance, but its definitely worth looking into. I have not found much data concerning H202 in solution either and will need to experiment with it.

Using a PWM or resonance increases efficiency
Pulsing the cell's input increases efficiency in a few ways. One, it reduces the total power input over time (watts / second). Two, it reduces wasteful power input because the hho gas has time to move away from the anode in between cycles.

High frequency acoustics increase efficiency
Using high frequency acoustics inside the reaction area helps to move the hho gas away from the anode as well as reducing the foaming effect when used in the output area. It also cleans residue off the anode. The high frequency increases the surface area of the bubble past the point of failure, therefore releasing the gas from the foam.

There is an optimal temperature range for solution
I have not seen any data regarding this, but from observation of tests performed on YouTube, I can conclude this to be true. At lower temperatures, the resistance in the electrolyte is higher than at high temperatures. As resistance lowers, it can move more electrons faster, therefore higher voltage can be applied at higher amperage. Since NaOH itself has a much higher melting point than H2O, I would suspect the most efficient temperature of the electrolyte should be in the 90 to 95 degree Celsius range while under vacuum. I will test and gather data on temperature and vacuum versus resistance. Of course, we don't want the electrolyte to boil due to temperature and vacuum.

Conclusion
My cell will be a semi-dry cell configuration with the following features.

• Separate reservoir
• Have two ultrasonic generators, one in the reaction chamber and one in the collection chamber
• Will have a high electrolyte concentration
• Will be temperature controlled
• Will use stainless steel bearings
• Will pump electrolyte over anode
• Will use a vacuum pump in collection area
• Will use a PWM based on ZeroFossilFuel's amperage limiting design
• Will use a bubbler as the collection area and secondary flash suppression system

I hope these observations aid you in designing your own hho generator and I will post the data concerning all discussed here so you can find the most efficient and least expensive way to produce your own hho gas.

[punkdgeek]

By the way, the cathode would either be carbon or a stainless steel rod, roughed up to increase surface area while not increasing turbulence too much.

[Stratous]

I believe other than using the nano particle electrodes, that the best way to increase efficiency is by putting the generator under vaccume. The vaccume lowers the surface tension of the water allowing the bubbles to break surface more easily.

[punkdgeek]

Hence the vacuum pump on the collector, right after the bubbler.

[timetowinarace]

what do you plan on using for ultrasonic generators? Sounds expensive.

[Phantom240]

Sonicare toothbrush!

lol. Sorry, just a random idea there.

But there are a couple things I see in the original post that I have some questions about.
1) H2O2... Hydrogen peroxide? True it has more oxygen.. but I don't see how that would take to electrolysis.
2) More voltage and more amperage is not the answer. I think it was stratous who said that you only need approx 1.8v to crack water. The rest is just wasted as heat energy. Heat boils water. Water escapes electolyzer. You see where I'm going with this?

[punkdgeek]

In regards to H2O2, I'm curious to see if it acts similarly to water in that a 'supergas' is formed in the same way.

It would also be interesting to see how much of the gas created is water vapor and how much is the hho 'supergas' under different voltage and amperage conditions. Since hho is a gas at room temperature, cooling the gas to room temperature after it comes off the cell and measuring the volume of the resulting fluid would tell us how much hho is actually being produced.

For the ultrasonic generator, I am going to use a small permanent magnet in a tube with oscillating electromagnets or I'll vibrate the anode (bearings) directly.

\________Electromagnet___________________________E lectromagnet________________/
----------tube-------------Permanent Magnet------------------------------------------

It should oscillate depending on the frequency I turn the electromagnets on and off.

[GoHHO]

I am using SS304 for all parts used in my cell. I used an earth magnet and found poor ss washers of low grade I have taken out. I now use distilled water and still get brown scum. Does anyone know if the brown scum will ever stop?

[Stratous]

Generally, the brown scum is caused by zinc. Is it possible that you have some cheap zinc mixed or plated hardware in your cell still.