Need inputs for PWM and an EFIE please...

[bigjim56]

Ok, my discussion on the computer integration section recently yielded the fact that I also need an EFIE to go along w/my map sensor if I am finally able to realize any mileage gains. I have visited ebay, the for sale section here and now want to give this board a chance to voice their knowledge and facts before I purchase what I need.

PWM - my car is a 2001 Acura Integra w/a 1.8L engine and a 20 amp power supply. I want to run my dry cell (testing stage, currently using water4gas) at the full 28% KOH concentration to allow for a more efficient operation and maximum freeze protection for winter operation. I want one that is a set it and forget it type. Some of the less expensive ones I suspect are of lower quality materials. Anybody know what weight of KOH flakes = 28% in a gallon of DI? For testing and breaking in purposes I'm currently using 3 level teaspoons of KOH/gallon. It's working well, but the 28% is my goal.

EFIE - I need one single narrow band EFIE. I mistakenly thought the map sensor was sufficient, but with all the tinkering done so far, little to no gains have me searching again. I know the water4gas design (6 cells) are producing combustable HHO because of my flash tests, so even with those I should be seeing something. I am getting 5-6 mpg more that the government figures, but I was getting that b4 the water4gas intro. I drive precipitously. Coast down hills, coast to stop lights, slow takeoffs etc.

H2OPWR/Larry,
I did a prefill of the cell for leak testing - one small drop developed, so I retightened the bolts and then retested, even pressure tested and no leaks developed so I set it up for the bench testing the next day.
Testing began on the dry cell yesterday at work and it went really well. I realize w/the 3 tsps/gallon that it would be a lower production rate than the 28% so that was not surprising. The consistent supply of HHO was refreshing. My flash tests showed as in the water4gas that the combustable HHO is not immediate, but quicker. I'm sure some air is still getting expelled. As the cell ran the flash became more pronounced and louder. Prior to shutting down (3hr. run) the flash tests were more like firecrackers going off. This is a much more powerful HHO than I've ever experienced w/water4gas cells. Some other things to note, the battery went from 12.22 v down to 12.15 at shutdown. The voltage between my cell plates were right at the 2.00-2.02v, then even dropping to 1.99 prior to shutdown. I measured 13.9 volts for my car supply, so this is an area that bolds well for improved production upon installation. Also, the temperature went from 70F to 82F in 3 hrs. time, I know thats low, but also the electrolite concentration is low, voltage supply is low and the gaskets are thinner, all of these are contributing to lower operating temps. I did get some foaming. In the bottom of the reservoir I mounted a "cap" w/numerous small holes that help disburse the bubbling and it seems to work well. The reservoir is hung, so raising and lowering can be done easily while operating. The best flow seemed to be w/the reservoir just above the cells top. The dry cell appeared to stay flooded, kudos to the 5/16" effluent/influent holes. Thanks for the help.
I plan to recharge the battery next shift, then run the following shift, I'll do that for another week or so then go for the install.

Thanks everyone for your inputs,

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

Ok, my discussion on the computer integration section recently yielded the fact that I also need an EFIE to go along w/my map sensor if I am finally able to realize any mileage gains. I have visited ebay, the for sale section here and now want to give this board a chance to voice their knowledge and facts before I purchase what I need.

PWM - my car is a 2001 Acura Integra w/a 1.8L engine and a 20 amp power supply. I want to run my dry cell (testing stage, currently using water4gas) at the full 28% KOH concentration to allow for a more efficient operation and maximum freeze protection for winter operation. I want one that is a set it and forget it type. Some of the less expensive ones I suspect are of lower quality materials. Anybody know what weight of KOH flakes = 28% in a gallon of DI? For testing and breaking in purposes I'm currently using 3 level teaspoons of KOH/gallon. It's working well, but the 28% is my goal.

EFIE - I need one single narrow band EFIE. I mistakenly thought the map sensor was sufficient, but with all the tinkering done so far, little to no gains have me searching again. I know the water4gas design (6 cells) are producing combustable HHO because of my flash tests, so even with those I should be seeing something. I am getting 5-6 mpg more that the government figures, but I was getting that b4 the water4gas intro. I drive precipitously. Coast down hills, coast to stop lights, slow takeoffs etc.

H2OPWR/Larry,
I did a prefill of the cell for leak testing - one small drop developed, so I retightened the bolts and then retested, even pressure tested and no leaks developed so I set it up for the bench testing the next day.
Testing began on the dry cell yesterday at work and it went really well. I realize w/the 3 tsps/gallon that it would be a lower production rate than the 28% so that was not surprising. The consistent supply of HHO was refreshing. My flash tests showed as in the water4gas that the combustable HHO is not immediate, but quicker. I'm sure some air is still getting expelled. As the cell ran the flash became more pronounced and louder. Prior to shutting down (3hr. run) the flash tests were more like firecrackers going off. This is a much more powerful HHO than I've ever experienced w/water4gas cells. Some other things to note, the battery went from 12.22 v down to 12.15 at shutdown. The voltage between my cell plates were right at the 2.00-2.02v, then even dropping to 1.99 prior to shutdown. I measured 13.9 volts for my car supply, so this is an area that bolds well for improved production upon installation. Also, the temperature went from 70F to 82F in 3 hrs. time, I know thats low, but also the electrolite concentration is low, voltage supply is low and the gaskets are thinner, all of these are contributing to lower operating temps. I did get some foaming. In the bottom of the reservoir I mounted a "cap" w/numerous small holes that help disburse the bubbling and it seems to work well. The reservoir is hung, so raising and lowering can be done easily while operating. The best flow seemed to be w/the reservoir just above the cells top. The dry cell appeared to stay flooded, kudos to the 5/16" effluent/influent holes. Thanks for the help.
I plan to recharge the battery next shift, then run the following shift, I'll do that for another week or so then go for the install.

Thanks everyone for your inputs,

bigjim56

Bigjim, 1 gallon of distilled water would require around 3 to 3.1 pounds of KOH flake to have a 28% solution.

Shane Jackson is building the current limiting PWM you are looking for at a lower price than you can find one anywhere else. I would contact him for one.

What I do not understand is how it is taking any time at all to get explosive HHO from your cell. If gas is coming off it has to be HHO. There is no way to get just oxygen by splitting water. There will always be hydrogen with it unless the hydrogen bubbles being smaller are slower to come off your plates. The only way I could see that happening is if the plates are not sanded and cross sanded well. I have never run into that problem before. Maybe someone else here has.

If you want to see what the higher voltage will do just leave the battery charger hooked up while running the cell. At low amp draw the voltage will go up that way.

Larry

[Painless]

What I do not understand is how it is taking any time at all to get explosive HHO from your cell. If gas is coming off it has to be HHO. There is no way to get just oxygen by splitting water. There will always be hydrogen with it unless the hydrogen bubbles being smaller are slower to come off your plates. The only way I could see that happening is if the plates are not sanded and cross sanded well. I have never run into that problem before. Maybe someone else here has.

Larry,

I often find this with my cells on the test bench, normal air gets into the system and has to be pushed out first.

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

Larry,

I often find this with my cells on the test bench, normal air gets into the system and has to be pushed out first.

Russ.

I guess that would be true especially with long lines going to the bubbler and the head space in the resevoir.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Larry,

It was approx. 2-3 minutes before the bubbles blew (flashed) with the dry cell. At first it was very weak, then it became stronger. At the end of the 3 hour run it was like firecrackers going off. Much stronger than my water4gas flash tests. All of that electrical leakage is apparent now. With the water4gas design, it was 5 minutes at least before a flash was successful. This isn't a high tech set up, just some dish soap and water. Tap the effluent hose w/wetted finger till a bubble grows then ignite it. I had one of the water4gas units blow its lid off, so I'm very respectful of the power of HHO. Flames are kept at a safe distance and a fan is used for venting/circulation.

Thanks for the reply on the 3-3.1 lbs KOH to 1 gallon DI, it will help out in the future. Would like to do a run w/the 28% before installation, but not sure if I will...don't want to have an accident w/a solution that strong and caustic.

bigjim56

[Bassman]

Tap the effluent hose w/wetted finger till a bubble grows then ignite it.

I wouldn't light the bubble with it on the hose.....

[bigjim56]

input to drop the the sex troll from top

bigjim56