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Thread: Alternating polarity to dislodge gas

  1. #61
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    Well, I just looked at the molecular energy/mole of ortho VS parahydrogen. The difference at room temperature is very small, about 5%. The difference between pure orthohydrogen and the equilibrium mixture at room temperature is less than 2%.
    You are right but you have to take into consideration what happens when it gets into the combustion chamber. Ortho attaches itself to carbon atoms in hydrocarbon chains in the intake, and inters the combustion chamber where energy is released by an ortho to para conversion turning the hydrocarbon chains into simpler chains which are more reactive gases. This is claimed to be a catalytic effect caused by ortho. It is an exothermic reaction for sure. You be the judge of that. This is where the advantage of ortho is to para. The more ortho there is the more energy or the reverse less energy. Not being a chemist this is a simple explanation of how I understand it. I am sure it is much more complex than this but it is the best I can do.

    Now put that aside and look at a reactor that is producing 50% less of ortho. How does this take place? When HHO gas is generated, the surface it is generated from has an effect upon the gas when generated. If that surface has been prepared to be comprised of predominantly detrimental CrO3, then the hydrogen that evolves from that surface will be predominantly parahydrogen. This has been measured and verified and is what happens when you use the commercial method of passivation of stainless steel. It forms a layer of CrO3. This is the main reason I have stopped this process where in the past I promoted passivation and used it my self. The gas will seek equilibrium over time but we are not storing it and are using it right away so there is an advantage to having it right out of the box.

    Now a surface that is prepared to promote orthohydrogen is what is ideal or at least one that does not promote parahydrogen. There are other conditions in the reactor that also effect the percent of ortho to para but all others that I am aware of have not been proven other than to increase the efficiency of the reactor and thus results might have lead to some thinking that it was more ortho than just efficiency.

    What is a reformer?
    Well any devise that changes the gas after it leaves the reactor and before it inters the intake stream. It either increase the actual gas quantity and or the percent of ortho to para. I am not referring to an amount over the 75 to 25 percent ratio. I am still not convinced that is possible but some say it is. One such device is the S. L. Ruskin patent # 3,228,868. You can Google that. That patent though is referring to liquid hydrogen and the process does not quite work the same for gas. My reformer is proprietary and I am not a liberty to discuss it or how it works at this time. I will say that it has some aspects of the Ruskin patent but is totally different at the same time in how it works. It is not totally developed yet either. It will go through many changes before it is perfected.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  2. #62
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    Nair, AnActualPhysicist, hhoelectronics, Here is a abstract you need to read. This should give you a better understanding of what is happening and why. If anyone has a full copy of this I would like to get my hands on it. Thanks D.O.G. for finding this.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...60319911023500

    This gives you the tools to help design the plate and ports. I have been saying for years that this is critical based on my testing.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #63
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    Yes, definitely that article will be helpful in understanding the underlying principle. Surely,

    1. Resonance (mechanical/electrical/magnetic)
    2. Electric field
    3. Magnetic field

    indeed has a bearing on gas production. I have been watching the youtube and many articles regarding this subject. Some are fake but many are genuine. There is one in the youtube where a scientist even showing the "memory effect of water". Some demonstrating the magnetic effects from an N52 magnet. Water is "special" as far as my knowledge goes.

    RTJ Nair

  4. #64
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    For a broader range of understanding here is a number of documents that will help.

    http://reduceyourfuelbill.com.au/for...;topicseen#new
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  5. #65
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    Here is one more thanks to D.O.G. again.

    http://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/enve/loga...JHE-author.pdf
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #66
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    I vaguely remember some research I did about 5 years ago and I will try and find the references to it but I think I was studying on the topic of electrode polarization for one thing. There's some non-trivial behavior at the electrode-electrolyte boundary. There's charge buffering, so in part it acts similar to a capacitor. There's also threshold conduction, so in part it acts analogously to a forward-biased diode. In particular, the equivalent circuit of an electrode pair in electrolyte is not just a resistor. A much better electrical equivalence model for an electrolysis cell is a non-linear resistor with the Butler-Volmer characteristic. Now I will try and find my complete notes and post what pertains to this. This is beyond my pay scale though and most of it goes over my head. LOL

    http://www.wiziq.com/tutorial/56814-...NT-ELECTRICITY

    "NON-OHMIC CONDUCTOR : Non-ohmic conductor.Those conductors which do not obey Ohm’s law are called non-ohmic conductor e.g. vacuum tube, liquid electrolyte etc. NON-OHMIC CONDUCTOR"

    http://science.jrank.org/pages/2324/...onductors.html


    "Non-ohmic conduction is marked by nonlinear graphs of current vs. voltage. It occurs in semiconductor junctions, electrolytic solutions, some ionic solids not in solution, ionized gases, and vacuum tubes. Respective examples include semiconductor p-n diodes, battery acid or alkaline solutions, alkali halide crystals, the ionized mercury vapor in a fluorescent lamp, and cathode ray tubes."
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. #67
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    Waaw...that was really a wealth of information myoldyourgold and appreciate it. You must have been doing a lot of reading and research all these years. I am going through each one of them and will try to catch up.

    RTJ Nair

  8. #68
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    I am still not sure of whether to try out a parallel or series resonant circuit. The internet info says both will give a good yield. This is a hick-up for me to code the necessary features into the microcontroller and stuck at this point, but seems there are some possibilities to overcome this,

    To have an "auto-tune" algorithm that slowly, a moving average technique, (based on time constant of cell, settable) raises the frequency based on the "amps" feedback and then identify the frequency when the min (for parallel resonance) or maximum (serial resonance) is achieved. Lock and then track it for any variation in cell parameters.

    Any suggestion is welcome.

    RTJ Nair

  9. #69
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    Nair Sir, I am afraid I will not be able to help in this matter. I am still not convinced that frequency is a method that has consistent results with out a lot of electronics and even then it is iffy. The evidence is not conclusive enough for me to commit the time to learn all that is involved. Beside that the electronics are way over my head. LOL This does not mean it is not possible but just not a field I am comfortable with. I will be very interested in your developments so keep us updated. If I happen to read something that might help I will pass it along.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  10. #70
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    I understand, hhoelectronics.

    The idea is to make something cost effective and at the same time improve gas production.

    I have not spent more than 150 USD for the hardware (mechanical items, 7-plate cell & electronics). Since I also do the assembling and microcontroller coding, the costs are low for me. You can utilize these low cost electronic devices and improve a system for sure. Precision is required but have to be kept at a fit-for-purpose level. It's again, a matter of individual choice.

    RTJ Nair

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