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Thread: Alternating polarity to dislodge gas

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kerala, India
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    34
    The coating indeed protects the plates from further corrosion as well as can act like a catalyst.

    The concept I was referring was to use very low current and high voltage and then attain the maximum production using cell resonance. The current systems including the PLL that I have come across for HHO in the net does not compensate for changes in cell parameters or the frequency will have to be manually adjusted for resonance. The PLL locks the frequency but will not necessarily mean at resonance at any given point of time due to various parameters affecting the cell eg; 1. Temperature 2. Coating that forms due to electrolysis 3. Change in water conductivity 3. Deterioration (due to aging) in plate geometry etc;

    The current reversal was defaulted at 3 CP (a settable parameter named cell-period) ie; 2milliSeconds. If you have an ON gating set at 1 sec, ie the period of "2/1000" is quite a very very low value to have any detrimental effect on the plates I believe.

    One way to reduce deposits is to use distilled water. The best way is to find out or quantify the gas production with and without the current reversal that was referred earlier in this thread. However, I will have to go ahead based on intuition and luck.

    RTJ Nair

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    The current reversal was defaulted at 3 CP (a settable parameter named cell-period) ie; 2milliSeconds. If you have an ON gating set at 1 sec, ie the period of "2/1000" is quite a very very low value to have any detrimental effect on the plates I believe.

    One way to reduce deposits is to use distilled water. The best way is to find out or quantify the gas production with and without the current reversal that was referred earlier in this thread. However, I will have to go ahead based on intuition and luck.
    Nair Sir, I have not tested the the changing of polarity so quickly. It is beyond my ability and time available with other important testing going on, but I am assuming that the continued changing even in milliseconds will only delay the eventual deterioration of the catalytic layer. This layer when done right is one of the more important factors in achieving gains in the internal combustion engine in fuel used and the reduction in pollutants including NOX. Recent tests in a CARB approved lab has proved this. The catalytic layer is formed even with double distilled water. In fact the cleaner the water the better the quality of the layer. I have seen the layer come off with reversing the polarity and using high amperage to speed up the results. It literally flakes off. In the cleaning process it is important to continually change or filter out any impurities from the electrolyte and is a slow process but the rewards are high when combined with the proper conditioning. Giving it enough time the electrolyte remains clear with no more impurities coming from the electrodes in the final stages of cleaning.

    I would be very interested in your results. How long this would delay the destruction of any catalytic layer under these conditions is unknown to me and would be interesting if my assumption is correct and if wrong even more important. Keep me posted.

    I am more interested in changing the state of the water in a way that it wants to come apart "quicker" without using any energy from the engine or source that needs replacing like a battery. Quicker is not easier and in theory does not violate Faraday!! I have had some preliminary measurable results but I am not convinced that it is enough yet to be worth while without further testing.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kerala, India
    Posts
    34
    Yes myoldyourgold, point noted. It seems the sudden current reversal could hamper the coating and cause its dislodging from the plates. I have re-written the code whereby this feature defaults to "NO" but be enabled on-the-fly. We will try both scenarios and see the difference.

    My hick-up is that I don't have passivated/conditioned plates and instead will try with normal 304SS (cheaper) plates for the time being. The results can then be extended to reformed 316L plates if necessary.

    The net is full of genuine and fake information and often difficult to find the truth. Being a newbie, I am keeping fingers crossed.

    I have recently come across an info which seemingly convince me that the resonance is achieved between 200Hz to 3KHz for a setup that can easily be rigged up. I will have to change my earlier assumption ie the range from 2.7K to 20KHz to this one.

    http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm

    Here, the cell capacitance (tubular) was found to be somewhere between 2 and 6 nF.

    RTJ Nair

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Nair Gee, please do not take my comments in a way that will miss direct you from your experiments. A Meyer resonance type reactor is totally different to the simi brute force reactors that I am working on and many things do not cross apply. Continue on in your quest. The coating that Meyer mentions in his setup is totally different than what I have referenced. You seem to have a good handle on what you are doing so keep us informed. I will be very interested in following your progress.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  5. #85
    You know cheap car audio amplifiers output a/c. The frequency rate changes based on input frequency. So you get a small bridgeable amp or mono block, pick a frequency that gives you the highest production, and play that into the amp. You can either build a frequency generator for a few dollars or maybe use an old mp3 player on repeat.

    You will have to pay attention to resistance though. Most audio amps are not "high current" which in car audio means if load is lower than 4 Ohms, it's too much. Even if the amp is outputting 100 amps, if it's not stable below 4 Ohms, its not a high current amp. Some amps are stable to 1/2 Ohm though. A week or less of browsing craigslist should be enough to find a good deal on an amp to try this out.

    Edit: I failed to mention that a speaker will change the resistance for different frequencies. A 4 Ohm rating is the nominal reading. So even if your cell has a lower reading than what the amp says it can handle, the cell is not a speaker, but the amp might not know the difference. since you will only be "playing" one frequency, you might be able to get away with it.

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