wondering if anyone knew what is best for hyddrogen to burn at with oxygen? what's the ratio?
A/f ratio for gasoline is 14.5/1 for normal everyday crusing. I was wondering what the ratio would be for hydrogen to burn perfectly.
as well is there a way of figuring out what would be the best A/f ratio for a F.I. car and what would be the best way of testing it?
dave
after doing some research around i was able to find that our HHO production burns perfectly. it's required that 2 atoms of hydrogen burn with 1 atom of oxygen, and it burns back into water.
this puzzles me though. Not that the the ratio of it because that definatly makes sense. What puzzles me is the o2 sensor problems. It is believed that the 02 sensor of a car reads the extra Oxygen in the exaust and richens up the fuel. this causes a reverse effect of what we are after and it ends up using more fuel to run the automobile. Now if that is true where is the extra oxygen coming from? if hydrogen and oxygen burn perfectly coming from water without extra air added to it then there will not be any extra oxygen.
I'll see what i can come up with later for me to get this right. there is alot of info out there... it's just not all in one place.,
I have to say , you do have a real good point.
So actually since the by product is back to water after the burn, then why is the o2 sensor detecting oxygen?
Maybe the process is not complete yet and there is still oxy present.
Originally Posted by jimbo40
For the transformation to not be complete it would have to still be burning. Hydrogen burns quicker than gasoline does as well it would burn the valves if it were to still be burning when it exited the cycliner.
using an o2 extender is not an answer to fixing any computer problems. It is a very poor bandaid to the problem.
I would tend to agree Dave. I would like to know what the ECM algorithm is related to the O2 sensor(s). When more Oxygen is detected, what is the ECM response? When less Oxygen is detected, what is the ECM response?
with more oxygen detected it should read a lean condition and add fuel. now i cant see the O2 sensor being able to "read" the oxygen content in water, unless it can in that case it would see a lean condition.
Hi,
I am new to this forum, but from what i understand about the O2 sensor is it shouldn't be a problem when burning hho gas. At a website called Rainingfuel.com quoted this;
"What about the O2 sensor?
First you must know what one is and what they do. Automotive oxygen sensors,colloquially known as O2 sensors, make modern electronic fuel injection and emission control possible. They determine if the air fuel ratio exiting a gas-combustion engine is rich (with unburned fuel vapor) or lean (with excess oxygen). Closed-loop feedback-controlled fuel injection varies the fuel injector output according to real-time sensor data rather than operating with a predetermined (open-loop) fuel map. In addition to improving overall engine operation, they reduce the amounts of both unburned fuel and oxides of nitrogen from entering the atmosphere.
Unburned fuel is pollution in the form of air-borne hydrocarbons, while oxides of nitrogen (NOx gases) are a result of excess air in the fuel mixture and cause smog and acid rain. Volvo was the first automobile manufacturer to employ this technology in the late 70s, along with a 3-way catalyst.
- All that this means for you is that everything will function just fine, without a hitch.
Your O2 sensor will read that there is no unburned fuel and it will not send as much of your expensive gasoline through the injectors."
This makes sense to me , does any one here also agree? Any comments?
Okay, A couple of things:
- Hydroen does not magically make gasoline burn more completely. It does lessen the amount of time it takes gasoline to seperate to the point in time under which combustion can occur. That timing is built into your engines timing, ever hear of advancing or retarding the timing? That's because gasoline combustion occurs in two stages. Seperation and ignition. The spark creates seperation, which later leads to ignition. That's why spark often occurs before the psiton is top dead center. Anyways, because of the faster seperation, more time can be spend in combustion. This combined with leaner air/fuel ratio's more more of the provide gasoline will burn. In fact, if you were to just lean the ratio's more complete combustion would occur WITHOUT hydrogen. But, that's hot, and that means NoX, a big no-no for emissions.
- The only thing tempature and O2 sensors have in common is that the o2 sensor needs to be at the correct tempature to have the exhuast create an electrochemical reaction to create voltage to send to the ECM. This is why narrowband sensors only work in a vary narrow area.
- Hydrogen can burn in as little as 140:1 ratios of oxygen to hydrogen. Not well, nor dependably, but it can occur. 50:1 is more reasonable.
- The oxygen sensor adds more fuel because not only is it getting the naturally occuring oxygen during the intake stroke, but it's also supplemented by even more oxygen with the hh*O*.
- 14.7:1 air to gas ratio has nothing to due with gasoline and everything to do with you cat. It's converts most efficiently when the air and fuel is in that ratio. Your engine runs just fine leaner or richer. Actually, it runs better leaner than 14.7:1. That ratio is purely about emissions, not how well gasoline combusts.
- Hydrogen doesn't give an engine more horsepower. Supplementing and engine with greater fuel and oxygen pure intake stroke does (just like with forced induction), but it's not the hydrogen. In fact, hydrogen contains significantly less energy than gasoline. The greater power levels people notice has all to do with the greater oxygen content, and the additional fuel than their engines would normally be getting.
I should probably put together an oxygen sensor FAQ for everyone.
Ok, this is all well and good.. My question is, why does the o2 extenders work? After reading the first page, i thought the steam would have been the issue, and rasing the sensor pulled it up and out of the steams path...... i understand that 02 sensors do not read temp, but that does not mean the steam is not having an affect on the sensor. alot of newer car's 02 sensors run at 600 degs. They even have heaters built in to get them warm faster when you first start them.
Most cars blow out a little condensation in the mornings, no big deal. Maybe the problem is the constant steam. Could the steam be packing contamanits from the converter to the sensors?
Steam won't overly harm your emissions equipment as long as it's just water steam. Corrosion is about as bad as it gets.
O2 extenders only work sometimes, and they don't really work that well overall. The sensor is installed directly into the exhaust stream OEM, and the extender removes it from that to reduce how much unburnt fuel hits it to create voltage. Now, depending on how the exhaust runs and the velocity, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. I wouldn't depend on it. I don't like the fact it's non-adjustable. I might only use one in conjunction with o2 manipulation if it was needed as a last ditch effort to get the most I could out of a system.
If you get one, be sure to try to get an isolator as well. It threads into the extender, and has just a small pinhole in it. If they extender doesn't work, that might help. But like I said, I don't like them.
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