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Thread: How many Litres per minute of HHO are needed

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  1. #1
    Huck Guest

    How many Litres per minute of HHO are needed

    I am just beginning to experiment with HHO; reading through this forum I noticed everyone is talking about how many Litres Per Minute (LPM) their generators will make. This brings two questions to mind:

    1- How many LPM are needed to begin to see a fuel savings in a four cylinder engine that runs at a constant 1800 RPM?

    2- How many LPM will be needed to eliminate the need for any petrol in the same engine? The engine currently burns gas at a rate of 4.16 litres per hour (1.1 gallons per hour).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    713
    I have heard of units running with as little as .5 liters per minute and still saving people money.

  3. #3
    gasmakr Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Huck View Post
    1- How many LPM are needed to begin to see a fuel savings in a four cylinder engine that runs at a constant 1800 RPM?.
    how fast are you driving at 1800 rpm 35mph or so? for most of the 4 cylinder cars i have owned or own currently that is just above idle. I commute to work on the interstate and run around 3000-3300 rpm at speed.

  4. #4
    Sfair74 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gasmakr View Post
    how fast are you driving at 1800 rpm 35mph or so? for most of the 4 cylinder cars i have owned or own currently that is just above idle. I commute to work on the interstate and run around 3000-3300 rpm at speed.
    That's strange. Maybe it's your driving habits or the traits of a small engine. Personal I have a 3.8L v6 in a 1996 Buick Regal GS and just cruising I'm doing 1600-1800 RPM @ 55-60 MPH. If I use slow and steady acceleration I don't pass 2000 rpm and if I do pass 2k it's not by much. When you use rapid acceleration and changes in your speed that's when the RPMs go up.

  5. #5
    gasmakr Guest
    That post refers to 4 cylinder small displacement engines like 2.0L or less...
    I have also had cars that ride at a much lower RPM like my 5.0 Mustang it rides at 1100rpm at 55mph....but that also depends on gear ratio of the rear end and final drive ratio of the transmission..my commuter car runs an average rpm of 3000 on my commute at 65mph.

  6. #6
    gasmakr Guest
    that equation is for total displacement volume..... that's why he number is so large the ideal Air\Fuel ratio for gas is 14.7:1 so the fuel amount of that large volume is much smaller..how that ratio translates to HHO i'm not sure what the ideal combustion ratio is for hho if you figure out what the ratio is you could devide the ratio from the total displacement and that should be your number.

  7. #7
    dennis13030 Guest
    Thanks "gasmakr". I was missing this air/fuel ratio. However I did mention that saturation was probably not needed. I would like to find out what the air/HHO ratio is too for a normal engine. The 14.7:1 air/gas ratio makes my flow requirements 14.7 times smaller(thats great). I hope this ratio is close to the air/HHO ratio.

  8. #8
    Johnh Guest
    Its an interesting question:
    There are a couple of videos on Utube and I have spoken to a number of people that have run an engine on straight HHO (all single cylinders) and they all say that to run the engines must be fully choked. ie getting all their charge from the HHO. Personally I find this hard to believe as we know that hydrogen's burn limits are very wide and that with petrol combustion a lot of the power is provided from the non active gases (nitrogen mainly) expanding as they are heated by the combustion.
    Its definitely not the case for engines run on straight hydrogen because most of the successful conversions are running unthrottled all the time and only varying the fuel flow to vary revs and power. Why should HHO be so different ?
    Just got a 20HP Kohler for some bench tests so in a week or so I hope to have some of my own answers both with straight hydrogen from a aluminium/NaOH reactor and a Tero cell if I get the bits I need.
    Regards
    John

  9. #9
    mneste8718 Guest
    All we need to know about the HHO is the enthalpy of formation (how much energy it releases per kilogram or whatever unit). Once you have that, you need to find out the enthalpy of formation for gasoline per kilogram. Then you can compare how much HHO you need to create the same explosion that a given amount of gasoline would give you. Then you would know exactly how much HHO is needed to run a car.

    Later you can maybe log you injector duty cycle and see how much HHO is used while cruising and such.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1

    HHO has oxygen mixed with hydrogen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnh View Post
    Its an interesting question:
    There are a couple of videos on Utube and I have spoken to a number of people that have run an engine on straight HHO (all single cylinders) and they all say that to run the engines must be fully choked. ie getting all their charge from the HHO. Personally I find this hard to believe as we know that hydrogen's burn limits are very wide and that with petrol combustion a lot of the power is provided from the non active gases (nitrogen mainly) expanding as they are heated by the combustion.
    Its definitely not the case for engines run on straight hydrogen because most of the successful conversions are running unthrottled all the time and only varying the fuel flow to vary revs and power. Why should HHO be so different ?
    Just got a 20HP Kohler for some bench tests so in a week or so I hope to have some of my own answers both with straight hydrogen from a aluminium/NaOH reactor and a Tero cell if I get the bits I need.
    Regards
    John
    hi John, if you dont run engine fully choked the oxygen content is to hi to burn seeing the HHO already has its own. although it dose run good with a pure hho mix, if you ran pure hydrgen you would have to and oxygen so it could burn.. im trying to find out how many liters of HHO it takes to keep a 12.5 hp. (1.4 liter) briggs running. i can run it for a wile of of a baloon, and am gueing it will take about 14 lpm.

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