how much LPM needed for 660cc cab

[snapper1d]

What a lot of people dont understand about compressing gases is that when you compress a gas heat builds up.Say a cubic foot of gas is compressed into a cubic inch all that heat in it is compressed into that cubic inch also.Take this as an example.That cubic foot of gas has the temperature of 72 degrees.Now you compress it down to 1/2 cubic foot of gas the temperature is 150 gegrees and down to one cubic inch it is 300 degrees.Thats just an example and is not the actual temperatures.If that was gasoline or diesel it would have detonated.If you compress it slow and cool it while you are doing it to keep the heat out it would not detonate at all.It is the heat build up that will detonate it.You have to cool the gases while you are compressing them to keep them from detonation.If you look at the schematics of a hydrogen H2 filling station you will see that they have a chiller in them to cool the gas while compressing it so it does not detonate on you.

[clarence1984]

wow snapper thank you for some truth here. I did not give the specifics on doing this all. However any affordable diaphragm pump would do this. As they pump very slowly up to 90 psi. The heat would double in a perfect environment but if you take actual results like i have done for these folks the heat would be less than self detonation temperature which according to wiki on oxyhydrogen "autoignition occurs at about 570 °C (1065 °F)"
alot of misunderstanding with hho.
So if you solder two copper tubes together and plumb it into a freeby apartment fridge pump you can keep the hho very cool so you can up the pressure on it.

[snapper1d]

The colder it is the easier and better it would be to compress.Just like the condenser on an air conditioner.Hot gas goes thru it to be cooled and pressurized to condense the freon back to a liquid state before going to the evaporator.Then when it is released into the evaparator you get the cold from it.The condenser has air blown thru it to drive out the heat. So using your hho line as a condenser and running it thru a fridge would really drive out the heat.I see you did your homework on the auto ignition temp.I didnt think it was that high but I knew it was a lot higher than people think.The people who are playing with hho that have explosions ard not being careful with it.This stuff is extremely dangerous in quantity and needs the proper equipment to work with it and also traning.

[clarence1984]

knowledge is key to oxyhydrogen (hho) but yes it can be dealt with in bulk just like propane. We deal with it everyday or hydrogen or many other extremely flammable gasses people deal with everyday. We all come in contact with these sometime in our lives all we need is good understanding and well built safety features. Even though there will always be some moron somewhere smoking with leaky fittings on his compressed hho tank. All I can say about that thank you higher power for removing this air breather from this world. lol j/k for anyone who has been injured by hho. My first experiments with this back in hs years ago my buddy at the time lit the foam we had ontop of a bucket of soapy water we used as the water. I almost lost my hearing since that day i've been figuring out all the solutions to this hho craze. It's the most useful and easy to create fuel.
Anyone who catches this thread email me if you are interested in having a whole system powered by wind to fuel your cars and home? My company is taking a poll to find out who many people are ready for our upcoming products so that we can gauge a release date.

[timetowinarace]

Clarence,

While you seem well informed and I don't dispute anything you've said it might be a good idea to keep in mind this is a DIY type forum. The majority here are not engineers or scientists and from your previous posts you prefer that companionship. It is not completely correct that hho cannot be compressed. That has been established. I do question the wisdom of your being very adament about the safety of doing so. Remember, DIY? The lay person should not be led to believe it is a safe thing to do without precaution. It appears to me your here to market a product more than help the DYI crowd with your 18 posts.

I personally am not afraid to compress hho, but believe I would seperate the gasses and only store hydrogen if I was inclined to go in that direction. Many advantages to that.

[clarence1984]

don't get me wrong here
I'm not selling an item simply wondering if people are looking to create this product i've given all the information about compressing hho. If you compressed hho in a one second increment to 15psi from a starting temperature of 77 degrees the hho would ignite. Such as compression in a car or diesel. We want this type of compression. But how dare you tell me compression is so dangerous until you have actually done it yourself. Have you actually had it explode from compressing it? If so do you have scientific documentation to prove it was from compressing and not a spark or open source flame. But this forum is very slow for as many people that have emailed me. This should be more like a classroom debate with an instructor somewhere who has a great deal of knowledge. Everyone is just sitting around building things that fail or don't work. This is not facilitation. Also I have mentioned that I understand this is a common folk forum i have written that in the past messages. Please read them carefully. I gave the math behind everything. If you are expecting over unity it's impossible. You can't break the laws of faraday. No one can. There is always a small void in the production of hho. So if the smartest people in the world in a think tank can't solve the over unity idea with hho electrolyzers what makes you think this forum will solve it without the help from college educated people. What is the whole idea of this website? Or what is it really supposed to do. So far all I have seen is a bunch of people who know nothing swapping ideas that don't work and advertising websites were they bought stuff that doesn't work and never replying afterwards. I have tried over 100 sites with federal funding and found not even one of them has provided over 5 percent of improvement on the basis of gasoline/octane savings in a ice. Send a letter to berkely's science department asking them if its possible they'll tell you the best ever achieved is 8 percent and that was in a lab under perfect conditions. So all these people claiming 50 percent improvements are liars. This type of information should be banned from here. I gave out my website address but i don't have any info about any of what i have talked about posted on there i'm not trying to sell anything the only reason i posted it at all is because i got asked. But the common folk here need to know there is easy ways of compressing hho and using it for the common folk. People like you tell people not to and have no evidence that there is actually a problem. You heard it through " the grape vine" but have you actually wiki'd any of this information you have provided?

I'm probably going to get banned after this post so farewell all. If you want to know how to make a sustainable system for the common folk come to my site www.beawindhog.com or catch me on overunity.com as clarence1984

[1973dodger]

clarence1984,

Finally, someone who wants to think out of the box, and does'nt start a thread with "what if" and instead starts with an experiment to provide real numbers. Sure every new thought starts with "what if", but the problem is most of time, it never gets off the drawing table. Man, I have so many questions.

1- Could the electrolosis take place inside of a pressurized container. From what i have witnessed, being in the housing industry for 30 years, the power of water, and perhaps electrolsis in water, can move a house.
2- If not, is a vaccuum pump used to take the hho and pressurize it in a storage tank.
3- How do the figures you use translate in liters/ minute, in what is needed to keep up with the hydrogen demand.
4- Don't be too much of an elitest, when it comes to education. Most of us who have lived for awhile, realize the real education comes after you get out of school. The problem with rumor and assumption, it is not exclusive to the uneducated. Many have been a little too trusting of the information out there concerning hho and electrlosis. As i have said many times on this forum, research has it's place, but real experimentation is the key.
5- What in your opinion is a safe pressure to work without going right up to the brink. Also what saftey precautions could be implemented such as saftey relief valves and so on.
6- I have read some posts on another forum from a man known as Alaska Star who has some inovative ideas. There must be something in the water up there. If I were'nt so close to heaven as I am here in the hills of East Tn., I would certainly consider Alaska a great place to live.
7- I assume the reason you are going with graphite cells are because of current flow and less resistence. Is your production better per amp?
8- I assume from your earlier post your are storing hho, not just hydrogen. Have you given any thought seperating it magnetically, such as have one outlet hooked up to a positive charge and one outlet hooked to a negative charge coming out of your hho generator. One could simply use a brass hose barb for each gas outlet, one for oxygen and one for hydrogen, hooked to their respective charges. Perhaps you may not get pure hydrogen this way, but my bet is you may get more bang for your cubic foot of storage, thus longer distance between fill-ups.

I'll let that be all the questions for now and let someone else chime in here. Keep up the good work.

1973dodger

[clarence1984]

I would love to type more but i'm on my wife's laptop at the moment my favorite clevo laptop just died (alienware) buss processor shorted out for no apparent reason and it's under warranty but the tech just told me the fan/heatsink had come disconnected from the motherboard because i dropped it i'm like this never leaves my work desk i just got it because i had the opportunity to use it mobile if i needed to. So im out 1900 dollars. Serves me right for paying that much for a laptop i guess. Should have just bought a dell for 300 bucks from the site lol.. I had to vent sorry everyone!

O.k as for your questions dodger i'll answer them as you listed them

1. The pressurized container idea would not work hho production drastically declines as you increase container pressure.
2. A diaphragm pump (ebay cheapy) would work as long as it has vacuum on one side and compression on the other. These work nicely in the 30 to 50 dollar range used.
3. I can't give you exact figures. Early in this thread I gave alot of math about how to figure out how much gas you need for an engine and such. It all depends on what you want to do with the oxyhydrogen.
4. I agree on you. I believe you need some decent math education here to make this whole thing easier on you. Algebra 1 in hs probably won't be enough here. I would say take some pre calc or some beginner physics classes they are cheap and will give you loads of understanding as to what type of algorithms to use and why. There are reasons behind the math. Good old elbow grease teaches us alot too however good math makes the elbow grease alot less work. I've been out of college for many years now and have actually worked with oxyhydrogen since my high school days.
5. O.k this is the real money maker here. I would say 15 psi would be a safe operating pressure without any faults. You would have to be able to pump up to that in less than .015 seconds to achieve combustion so even with the fastest pump in a conventional cost scheme you couldn't do that without mixing in more air and therefore making the oxyhydrogen less combustible and cooling it down more. I would say the easiest would be to buy a pic programmer for usb off ebay and program an pic to monitor pressure and inside tank temperature which sounds complex but pic programming for dummies is out now and one nights read should let you program the chips and hook it all up. A safety pressure release may be a bad option as they are usually brass and can make a micro spark or the bottle necking of the hho through the opening may cause unnecessary heat which we dont' want nor do we want this filling up a garage were you have a spark anywhere in the room bad news lol. For safety a pressure shut off like a air compressor type relay would be great they are very fail safe. A easy pressure sensor (off ebay like an oil pressure sensor and such) would work great they are more solid state and use a ssr or solid state relay all this is cheap to keep any actions of sparks down to a min. That way all this can be compact. most of the diaphragm pumps i've looked at are induction too so no sparks there. These are all safety precautions I know they sound like overkill but look at propane all this is done too.
6. I love it here in alaska. The weather is nice mid 70's during the summer and winters are mild in my part of alaska about 30 degree or so throughout the winter. But we get about 2000 dollars per person per year from dividends here to blow so people seek out money making opportunity's more.
7. I got 8mmw you do the math on that zero fossil fuel on youtube only gets just under 6 with stainless 316 totally custom cell with a pretty good pwm circuit.
8. I have tried this believe it or not actually i tried using neodymium magnets and pulsing a voltage capable of corona on the magnets without making a spark the amount of separation just took too much energy for the little bit i got. Also hho is so much more powerful as it is all you need in one gas. Unlike hydrogen separately or oxygen separately. The energy unit of more too. But here is a quick fix for all those needing better gas mileage now. Just buy a oxygen concentrator and pipe it into your intake. There you go a cleaner hotter burn.

[1973dodger]

Clarence1984,

My thoughts concerning a oxygen concentrator. Oxygen, while it is a critical element in the combustion process, it is also public enemy #1 of metals(as well as heat), whether in your electrolosizer or your engine, hence oxydation.

Yor body, for instance must have oxygen to sustain life, yet it has to make anti-oxydents to combat the the corrosive effects of oxygen.

My concern would be, there is a point when the AFR is at it's optimum level (most experts say; 14.7-1), there are other factors to consider other than optimum fuel burn, such as engine wear.

1973dodger

[clarence1984]

hey if you want to be more technical with this come over to my forum just goto the bottom of beawindhog.com sign up and we can discuss this more in detail as the administrators of this site have contacted me and told me to not talk about compressing hho or any of that here also not to be so technical as this is for common folk who won't be able to understand the math that i have posted.