-WHY- does HHO use result in better fuel efficiency?

[Philldpapill]

I've read, and read about HHO, but I can't find out WHY it is supposed to increase efficiency. I know people play with the sensors on vehicles and modify setting on the ECU, but isn't that just trading off engine life for increased fuel efficiency?

I'm avidly against any sort of over unity claims, so I know that the HHO is not just adding extra energy by the stoichiometric combustion alone. I mean, if your HHO generator were 100% efficient, then you would put X amount of energy into producing the gas, and get exactly 100% of that energy back when you burn the gas. The result would be absolutely no net gain in fuel efficiency. In the real world, it would actually HARM efficiency.

So the question is, WHAT is going on to produce extra power through the use of this gas? Can anyone explain this, or point me in the right direction? I come from an engineering background, so I love data and theory with evidence. I'd love to have some ammunition touse when I argue my engineer/scientist friends.

[H2OPWR]

I've read, and read about HHO, but I can't find out WHY it is supposed to increase efficiency. I know people play with the sensors on vehicles and modify setting on the ECU, but isn't that just trading off engine life for increased fuel efficiency?

I'm avidly against any sort of over unity claims, so I know that the HHO is not just adding extra energy by the stoichiometric combustion alone. I mean, if your HHO generator were 100% efficient, then you would put X amount of energy into producing the gas, and get exactly 100% of that energy back when you burn the gas. The result would be absolutely no net gain in fuel efficiency. In the real world, it would actually HARM efficiency.

So the question is, WHAT is going on to produce extra power through the use of this gas? Can anyone explain this, or point me in the right direction? I come from an engineering background, so I love data and theory with evidence. I'd love to have some ammunition touse when I argue my engineer/scientist friends.

It is simply the speed of the flame front. Gasoline is in reality a very slow burner. Way more fuel exits through the exhaust than is actually burned in the combustion chamber. The ignition timing has to be set way before top dead center just to get decent power from gasoline. That is why we have cat's on our cars. Simply to burn the fuel that does not burn under combustion. HHO is a catalyst that helps ignite more of the gasoline or deisel and extract extra power from that. Kind of like extra sparks during the combustion process. It has been proven over and over with constant speed deisel engines.

Larry

[Philldpapill]

So HHO is essentially raising the octane level of the fuel? Well, not the OCTANE, but acting to raise the ratio of light, easily combustable molecules?

It seems that if the flame front isn't "fast" enough, then this is more of a timing issue unique to the engine itself. If that's the case, why not fix the timing instead of adding hydrogen?

[Bassman]

So HHO is essentially raising the octane level of the fuel? Well, not the OCTANE, but acting to raise the ratio of light, easily combustable molecules?

It seems that if the flame front isn't "fast" enough, then this is more of a timing issue unique to the engine itself. If that's the case, why not fix the timing instead of adding hydrogen?

The timing is set correctly for the engine design and the fuel that it is designed to use. The HHO is improving the combustion of that fuel which will add horsepower and in theory should improve mileage.

[Philldpapill]

Yes, but WHY is it improving the combustion of the fuel? I'm not a mechanical engineer, so ICE's are not my specialty. The only thing my feable mind can see, is that the Hydrogen, being a much lighter molecule with a lower heat of reaction, would ignite the fuel more evenly, reducing knock.

Is this what is happening? I'd love to see some data on this.

[Bassman]

Yes, but WHY is it improving the combustion of the fuel? I'm not a mechanical engineer, so ICE's are not my specialty. The only thing my feable mind can see, is that the Hydrogen, being a much lighter molecule with a lower heat of reaction, would ignite the fuel more evenly, reducing knock.

Is this what is happening? I'd love to see some data on this.

If it ignites the gasoline more evenly, don't you think that it would make more of the gasoline ignite instead of sending raw gasoline out the exhaust?

[abe58]

Phill, Orginally HHO was used on race a race boat trying to replace Nitros for better preformance.During a day of raceing Mr. Boyce would run through a lot of gas,so he looked into makeing gas on demand.He did a lot of work to come up with what we now call a wet cells. It worked so well for him, he and others started looking for ways to use it on gas engines. From what I've seen it takes a lot more than a good CELL+ PMW+EFIE.They need to be tuned to the right frenquency for that cell. It's a little like tuneing the strings on a Gutar they are all a little different. If you are lucky enough to get it righ youll get better gas millage ,if not you'll waste money and thank it doesn't work. Check out YouTube for some good Info. Checkout "Bob Bouce Interview by Chris Patton". He explanes a lot of the questions about HHO .,

[Philldpapill]

Does anyone understand what determines the frequency of the cell? If this can be understood, I think it will be alot easier to make one of these cells work correctly, instead of "wasting money" like you said.

[hhoconnection]

Phill:

Watch this video series from Smack. If he sounds mad, it's because he is trying for the 1000+ time to explain to the skeptics out there why HHO will increase the efficiency of an engine. I'm sure he goes over a lot of what you already know, but there is a lot of good info in these videos. I hope this answers some of your questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbiShy9mTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5T_01CUM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYBTckOtVeI

[janiskoprime]

To the point....HHO burns faster than gasoline, and more efficiently. To add HHO to a gasoline combustion engine, you would substitute some of the power provided by gasoline with the combustion power provided by the HHO, allowing your engine to use less fossil fuels. When people say that HHO increases efficiency, they are refering specifically to the substitution of HHO gas for gasoline. The alternator on a vehicle produces the electricity required to "crack" the water into HHO.
One arguement is that the extra HP required to turn the alternator under the load of an HHO generator negates the HP produced by burning the HHO gas. While the efficiency of your HHO generator is a factor in this equation, it is only a factor in determining how much HHO is burned in the engine. Any time your alternator is turning it's producing current, limited only by a voltage regulator and rpms. The load on the alernator is unchanged. Example: Attatch a crank handle to car/truck alternator, then attatch a vehicle headlight to the alternator. Lets assume that turning the alternator by handcrank at 100rpms provided enough current to light the headlight at normal intensity. When turning the handcrank @100rpms, disconnect the headlight from the alternator. You`ll find that the effort required to turn the alternator does not change. Even though there is not a load on the alternator at this point, the potential current is still being generated.
With this in mind, understand that every auto alternator provides more current than your vehicle can use. With all the options running on your car; headlights, radio at full blast, power windows and seats etc, you can still plug in your cell phone charger or an ac/dc converter and a small television. The point is, there is current in reserve with no extra draw on the engine. Some people get this confused with the noticeable draw of power from the engine when the AC is turned on. This comes from the ac compressor which is activated by a clutch mechanism inside it`s own housing and is unrelated.
Based on this layout, we can deduce that there is current being unused when your engine is running. Attatching an HHO generator to that current and using it to crack water and provide supplimental combustion gas for your engine uses no more fossil fuels then are already being burned. You are basically converting unused electrical energy originally provided the burning of fossil fuels into HHO gas via an alternator and an HHO generator, thereby getting more fuel efficiency.
The only negative draw of an HHO generator over the original factory configuration of a vehicle is the added weight of the equipment. Provided that your HHO generator makes a high enough volume of gas it will not only compensate for the weight of the generator itself, but also add to the overall efficiency of your engine.
HHO does not create energy, it is simply a method to tap unused energy your engine is already producing. While my post may be late in comming, I hope this helps answer your question.