HHO in old engines

[sima.z]

I do have a couple of old Classic Cars Mez 200 1966, 4cyl, 2 carbs; both installed a new dry cell of my design, both with a perfect motors, that never used up any oil between oil changes. Nevertheless in one of them after a first try in a 120 miles ride in Colombia S.A. trough the mountains, I used a quarter of oil, which means that in that test the motor may have gotten clean up severally and the motor started to burn oil, all for the HHO I believe.
This may proof perhaps that in old engines even in good shape; HHO may be not so good; Rather harmful to the engine, even though the motor worked better, cooler and may be more economical.

Also I got another Car on HHO,A beater SUBARU 4x4 /82 and today we were discussing that the car started to used more oil that usual, on the other Mez 66 I got, a classical collection car in pristine condition; I will be remove the system when I get around, for now.
YES INDEED I GOT ENOUGH SCRUBBERS, and made sure nothing but HHO got into the engine. And the more I think about; I am convince that the use up of oil was due to
the installation of the HHO system, My mechanic said that the engine of this Mercedes Benz 200 /1966 4 cyl 2000 cc, has never been opened, neithere udes up any oil between changes; and tracing the history of the car , he may be right; those motors on that time were design for 300.000 miles or more, so all fit into place.
My concern now is that in the last 6 months; I realize that even all info I got form everywhere no-one talks about this. And perhaps in the American culture where almost no car get to its limit of use, well perhaps no-one notice this neither.
But the more the HHO Culture spreads all over this may be a problem and perhaps is all of us responsibility to past along this info. HHO may be not so good for all engines,
especially old ones. I MAY BE ABSOLUTE WRONG AND I SINCERILY HOPE SO TOO.
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Here in Colombia there are thousand and thousand of old cars that still running, and they will still be; regular gasoline is almost as twice as much as in the USA If my appreciations are correct and HHO cleans to much inside old engines, there will be a lot of people with car problems.
So as you all see there is the possibility of a lot of people at the end also to get very affected in the process
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But is important for me all; what other opinions in regards this are in the air?
As HHO is being look up all over the world, The fact that HHO may clean up to much the engines inside just like COMPRESED NATURAL GAS (CNG) does, may get to be a very serious matter for the third world countries.
Here in Colombia S.A. a great number of cars run on CNG; if the car is new no problem to install it; but if not, it has to past a rigorous test for compression on the motor and other aspects in order to have it installed, otherwise, the motor gets too clean inside and begin using oil and most likely an overhaul will be needed after that., in some cases, you got first to overhaul your car before you are allow to installed the CNG system. With CNG what did happened at the beginning in Colombia was that a lot of people had to repair or overhaul the engines because no-one told them that Natural Gas will clean to much the engines, therefore if the motor is not in perfect shape, CNG. shouldn’t be installed. Today we all know that CNG eventually shorten the total life of the engine but being half the price of gasoline here, it is worth in the long run. To install natural gas can ran into the $2.000-2.500 US, so not many can afford it,

And I think this is the case of HHO. Perhaps also, used up cars should past the same test as the cars going to be installed with CNG, to avoid any further surprises,
what do you all HHO folks think?

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At the very end I believe, there will be more people affected, rather than beneficiated., Perhaps just to looking into this matter will not harm no-one but we may learn a bit more of HHO and its effects on old engines.
Here In Colombia there are few already trying to make a quick profit with HHO, , none of them thinking of helping the environment, rather to make a quick profit. I was informed of a company with 15 taxis that blew 2 engines already, I meant blew, because whoever sold the system told them that the mixture o Gasoline needed to be lean (reduced) to a minimum to see real gains. Or so I was informed. And there already many more.

My question to all of you is if any of you have any info or comment on that? Any other reports you may have hear of it?

[Roland Jacques]

Hmm. I,d like to no what specifically do you think is happening to cause the extra oil consumption?

I have a 350 / 5.7 GM motor that went from using 1 quart per oil change to using 4 quarts per oil change ( no HHO). if id started using HHO during that time.... maybe just a coincidence maybe not.

I seem to remember mention of gasoline having a lubricating property (not sure) If so HHO maybe burning away.

[gizzy]

Hmm. I,d like to no what specifically do you think is happening to cause the extra oil consumption?

I have a 350 / 5.7 GM motor that went from using 1 quart per oil change to using 4 quarts per oil change ( no HHO). if id started using HHO during that time.... maybe just a coincidence maybe not.

I seem to remember mention of gasoline having a lubricating property (not sure) If so HHO maybe burning away.

Guys I have a thought. You know hho is great for cleaning carbon and emissions in an engine. It does go into the combustion chamber. It cleans the carbon so good that it actually cleans the sludge and varnish that accumulates around the seals. resulting in just a bit of oil unseen being burned. One of the reasons I think this is because back in the 70's I used a water mist injection into the carb which this did the same. I had a pontiac 400 cui and it really kept the carbon in the engine almost spotless. But it would use some oil by doing this, more so than not. Tell me if I'm on the right track here.

[WaltherPP9mm]

Even if I am not a chemist, it seems to me that we may have to deal with some kind of Hydrogenation reaction. More precisely, a destructive hydrogenation or hydrogenolysis.
From my modest level of understanding, it practically means that any now and when, under the hard conditions of temperature and compression inside the cylinder, some athoms of hydrogen are added to the long complex molecule of oil lubricant, with the result of breaking it apart in smaller mollecules that are more easily burned or exhausted therefor we notice an accelerated loss of oil lubricant. Maybe if switching to another grade or brand of oil we could dodge this secondary effect... or maybe if using some additive...
Experimentation based on a good scientifical approach could turn very useful on that matter...

If my guess is correct, guys like sima.z should be more concerned about another danger, that unfortunately don't reveal itself untill is too late. That is that if the lubricating properties of the oil in their engines are changing this could result in wearing-off the engine. Maybe some of you guys could take a sample of your used oil before flushing it away and make it analized by some friend working in a good lab...

[sima.z]

Hello to all:
Hydroxy works at least to better fuel emissions. Please see:

This is a report from Colombia S.A. on the Mercedes Benz/66 with dual carbs and very old engine, After I reported that Hydroxy cleaned to much the engine, which I still believe it does; I do have a very nice report especially to all that questions if Hydrtoxy works or not.
We have to change the head gasket; therefore we made a complete tune up including Valves adjustment,
We run the car on a gas machine tester; for 20 minutes on Gasoline and then another 20 minutes with my cell of Hydroxy. 5”x 5” –NNNN+NNNN- 0-8 gap 0.7 mm 304, 15Amps Aprox 0.8-1 LPM
The tune up went so well that the car even with the 2 carbs runs like EFI motor, After the Hydroxy it was even better. See for yourselves

ONLY GASOLINE WITH HYDROXY

CO2 12.2 10.9
CO 3.4 1.3
HC 300 314
O2 3.57 3.82
Stequimetric MIX 1.118 1.072

The previous test is on minimum 750RPM at 2000 RPM the result are lest visible but still good results. Or so it said the technitian that preformed the test.
I can not report on gas saving due that this is an stationary test, Not sure I will run it with Hydroxy for now since I am not complete sure on the side effects of the Hydroxy in the long run on the engine.

Cheers to all
German Zubieta

[Roland Jacques]

Guys I have a thought. You know hho is great for cleaning carbon and emissions in an engine. It does go into the combustion chamber. It cleans the carbon so good that it actually cleans the sludge and varnish that accumulates around the seals. resulting in just a bit of oil unseen being burned. One of the reasons I think this is because back in the 70's I used a water mist injection into the carb which this did the same. I had a pontiac 400 cui and it really kept the carbon in the engine almost spotless. But it would use some oil by doing this, more so than not. Tell me if I'm on the right track here.

Yep, that could explain it.

It could possibly be verified by doing compression checks, before and after HHO on high mileage ICEs.

[Roland Jacques]

Even if I am not a chemist, it seems to me that we may have to deal with some kind of Hydrogenation reaction. More precisely, a destructive hydrogenation or hydrogenolysis.
From my modest level of understanding, it practically means that any now and when, under the hard conditions of temperature and compression inside the cylinder, some athoms of hydrogen are added to the long complex molecule of oil lubricant, with the result of breaking it apart in smaller mollecules that are more easily burned or exhausted therefor we notice an accelerated loss of oil lubricant. Maybe if switching to another grade or brand of oil we could dodge this secondary effect... or maybe if using some additive...
Experimentation based on a good scientifical approach could turn very useful on that matter...

If my guess is correct, guys like sima.z should be more concerned about another danger, that unfortunately don't reveal itself untill is too late. That is that if the lubricating properties of the oil in their engines are changing this could result in wearing-off the engine. Maybe some of you guys could take a sample of your used oil before flushing it away and make it analized by some friend working in a good lab...

Back in my Coast Guard days, we use to use a devise to measure oil viscosity. It would basically tell use when oils lubricating properties were bad.

Oil viscosity brake down could be compared, before and after HHO on high mileage ICEs also. I forgot the name of these viscosity measuring devises but they could make comparing the oils a lot easier.

[sima.z]

An update on the 2 Colombian Mercedez Benz 1966running on Hdroxy.

I decide to run the other Mez 200 (#2) on Hidroxy, this time after over 400 miles up and down in the upper mountains of Colombia; (6000 feet average altitude)
Without any electric aid, just injecting the Hidroxy directly into the air intake on this run, I got on average 30 miles to the gallon that is very impressive for a car that weights almost 2 tons and runs on 2 Carburetors (2000 cc)
This time the Motor #2 used up very little oil, compare to the other Mez 66 (#1) that used I quart in less that 120 miles. Eventhough the engine #1 still in excellent condition. Without Hidroxy both cars do max 22 Miles to gallon on the road.
The car (# 1) did very well on the gas tester as I publish it before on this forum, it end up better that a common EFI engine with and without Hidroxy, making significant changes on the test.
What is tricking me now is that Car #2 made very small changes on the emissions gas testers, and I went to 3 of them including a mayor Mercedes garage, with same results here in Bogota Colombia. The only difference was that on Car (#2) I added one more neutral to the dry cell. –nnnnn+nnnnn- , same electrolyte and 10-15 amp of use. On Both cars.
Any comments

German Zubieta

[gizzy]

An update on the 2 Colombian Mercedez Benz 1966running on Hdroxy.

I decide to run the other Mez 200 (#2) on Hidroxy, this time after over 400 miles up and down in the upper mountains of Colombia; (6000 feet average altitude)
Without any electric aid, just injecting the Hidroxy directly into the air intake on this run, I got on average 30 miles to the gallon that is very impressive for a car that weights almost 2 tons and runs on 2 Carburetors (2000 cc)
This time the Motor #2 used up very little oil, compare to the other Mez 66 (#1) that used I quart in less that 120 miles. Eventhough the engine #1 still in excellent condition. Without Hidroxy both cars do max 22 Miles to gallon on the road.
The car (# 1) did very well on the gas tester as I publish it before on this forum, it end up better that a common EFI engine with and without Hidroxy, making significant changes on the test.
What is tricking me now is that Car #2 made very small changes on the emissions gas testers, and I went to 3 of them including a mayor Mercedes garage, with same results here in Bogota Colombia. The only difference was that on Car (#2) I added one more neutral to the dry cell. –nnnnn+nnnnn- , same electrolyte and 10-15 amp of use. On Both cars.
Any comments

German Zubieta

It's hard to say about #2... Just a few questions: What size engine?, Is there any emissions on the car at all?, What type of cell are you using?, and also check and test the output of HHO. Larger engines in general need a little more HHO. Maybe someone can also answer some of your questions.. Interesting otherwise...DD.

[drumacc]

Hmm. I,d like to no what specifically do you think is happening to cause the extra oil consumption?

I have a 350 / 5.7 GM motor that went from using 1 quart per oil change to using 4 quarts per oil change ( no HHO). if id started using HHO during that time.... maybe just a coincidence maybe not.

I seem to remember mention of gasoline having a lubricating property (not sure) If so HHO maybe burning away.

This is interesting to me as well. I just got my cell installed and working and had run it for about a week on the car for the first time. Yesterday I checked the oil and noticed it was very low. Unusual for this engine, as it ususlly does not burn much. I immediately wondered if the hho could cause it, but did not know. Old engine ( 240k ) though compression was 130lbs evenly across all 4 cyl 6 months ago.