208cc B&S on 100% hho

[Roland Jacques]

if i can create a 100% efficient engine when the gasoline on its best day is 30% i would be rather happy. that may make a lot of folks reconsider why big business is keeping more efficient transpotation from us

Weather the HHO driven motor is 100% efficient dose not help anything.
It takes a 30% efficient gas-diesel-coal... to make the electricity to make the HHO. So your 100% efficient HHO motor is still only 30% efficient at Very best. You are still using the same amount of Fossil fuels. (actually more FF because the inefficiency of making the HHO)

Maybe I'm missing something.

[hemigoose]

Hi Himegoose,
I understand optimizing gas or diesel ICE with HHO boosting. I dont understand the point of trying to get a motor to run on 100% HHO. Maybe you can explain why we would want an engine that runs on 100% HHO. Without HHO OU i dont see the point.

ok lets talk about what i am doing. basically its all energy conversion. you mentioned the ac power i pull from the grid being 30% efficient. so i take electrical energy from the grid and convert it into hho. from there i take the energy from the hho and convert it back into mechanical energy. next i take the mechanical energy and convert it back into electrical energy. taking into account that every stage of energy conversion there should be a net loss.

now lets look at boosting. you take the energy stored in gasoline convert it to mechanical energy. then the mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy, then to hho and try to raise the efficiency of a gasoline combustion, and convert back to mechanical energy. now lets not forget how crude is extracted from the ground refined and shipped across the world.

if we take a look at the laws of physics that govern us why would any one be at all interested in hho. "at every stage of energy conversion there is a net loss". i am not interested in tell the forum members here that boosting does not work. i just want to point out that boosting and 100% hho at the end of the day is all about energy conversion.what we are doing is not all that different.

[Philldpapill]

hemigoose, I see your point, and at one time I also agreed with that logic. However, the general idea is that the added hydrogen/oxygen mixture pseudo-raises the octane of the gasoline. By "raising the octane", you are allowing the gasoline to burn a little faster/better. This effect in turn is thought to increase the overall chemical-to-mechanical energy efficiency.

I DO subscribe to textbook physics, and I DO think there's something really worth investigating here. I'm an electrical engineer(mainly power electronics), so energy conversion is right up my ally. I love this stuff, and it gets me all giggly like a little kid when I see efficiency gains. Yes, I'm a nerd.

[Roland Jacques]

ok lets talk about what i am doing. basically its all energy conversion. you mentioned the ac power i pull from the grid being 30% efficient. so i take electrical energy from the grid and convert it into hho. from there i take the energy from the hho and convert it back into mechanical energy. next i take the mechanical energy and convert it back into electrical energy. taking into account that every stage of energy conversion there should be a net loss.

now lets look at boosting. you take the energy stored in gasoline convert it to mechanical energy. then the mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy, then to hho and try to raise the efficiency of a gasoline combustion, and convert back to mechanical energy. now lets not forget how crude is extracted from the ground refined and shipped across the world.

if we take a look at the laws of physics that govern us why would any one be at all interested in hho. "at every stage of energy conversion there is a net loss". i am not interested in tell the forum members here that boosting does not work. i just want to point out that boosting and 100% hho at the end of the day is all about energy conversion.what we are doing is not all that different.

Boosting and 100% HHO ICE is Apples and Oranges. "Making HHO" and "100% driven ICE" is all about energy conversion.


At the end of the day, HHO boosting is about altering gasoline/diesel burning characteristics.
Like a high performance spark plug that uses more energy, but burns the fuel better. potentially resulting in a net gain due to minimizing the existing losses.

[hemigoose]

well guys, you all make interesting points. having this conversation with you in a civil manner has been fun. i did not come here expecting a medal, i just wanted to try and get more people interested. i did not mean to distract you from your projects.

good luck to you. i hope to see reliable results from your work with boosting. we both have much work to do.


hemi

[Roland Jacques]

i do find what you are doing interesting. i look forward to seeing your progress. If i could afford it id be using a small generator that has a 12 volt output to do some testing of my own.


I am interested in knowing what ignition timing position you think works best using 100% HHO. I alway assumed it would be about 15-30 degrees after TDC. Have you come to any conclusions as far as timing goes?

[kerry k]

[QUOTE=Philldpapill;30465]hemigoose, I see your point, and at one time I also agreed with that logic. However, the general idea is that the added hydrogen/oxygen mixture pseudo-raises the octane of the gasoline. By "raising the octane", you are allowing the gasoline to burn a little faster/better. This effect in turn is thought to increase the overall chemical-to-mechanical energy efficiency.

I DO subscribe to textbook physics, and I DO think there's something really worth investigating here. I'm an electrical engineer(mainly power electronics), so energy conversion is right up my ally. I love this stuff, and it gets me all giggly like a little kid when I see efficiency gains. Yes, I'm a nerd.[/QUOTE

FYI The higher the octane the slower fuel burns

[Roland Jacques]

FYI The higher the octane the slower fuel burns

I think higher octane means a more stable burn not necessarily a slower burn.
i think HHO and gas makes for a more stable burn and a faster burn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

[googleinc]

If you use the batery power to produce enough hho to run you engine at 100% then this would power the alternator to charge the battery to power the hho cell and so on.

How would this not work?