So Sick of the Naysayers

[cabrera]

You lack faith and you fall short because you avoid getting to the point.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself!
Lack of Faith

[PiTRiFF]

All I know is that I am jumping for joy today. According to my Mileage calculator I am avg. 48 miles per gallon on my 1995 Jeep Wrangler. 4 cyl.
Before I installed the system I was under 20. I am using KOH as the electrolyte. Im not done yet!!!!

The difference in my jump from 21 to 48 is attributed to making the following modifications I believe.
Switched from Baking Soda to KOH
Added an Oxygen Sensor Extender
Added A MAP/MAF Sensor
Added a Pulse Width Modulator and Amp Meter.
Added an intake line into the first cell coming out of my air cleaner to bring air into the first cell.

[Philldpapill]

hhonewbie, you're talking like HHO is somehow related to "the force". Faith has absolutely NOTHING to do with Science. Just because I "believe" something should or should not work, has 0% to do with reality. Your view of this whole thing seems like IT is in the clouds...

The purpose of this HHO research isn't simply to "save money at the pump"... Understanding the mechanisms that IMPROVE fuel efficiency is my goal. Learning the SCIENCE behind what is going on, should be everyone's goal - not just saving a little bit of cash. Good god I'm having trouble getting past your first comment - "You lack faith"... Excuse me while I go punch my punching bag repeatedly, for hours on end. That just ****es me off...

Your faith clouds your objectivity. HHO has no regard for your belief system.

[Philldpapill]

PitRiFF, how are you calculating your MPG? Are you filling up, driving an ENTIRE tank, then dividing your miles driven by the gallons you refuel with? Otherwise, if you only drive 50 miles, and use your car's computer to figure MPG, that is horribly inaccurate.

I'd be jumping for joy if you I got a 140% increase in fuel efficiency... I'm sorry to say, but I'm 140% sure you have an error in there. A 20% improvement is amazing - over a 100% improvement seems wrong... Can you post your mechanism for calculating MPG?

[PeteVamped]

I installed my system and have had it running for about one month. I have not made any modifications other than running the stock system. I have a 95 Jeep Wrangler and have noticed a jump from 15mpg to 22.5mpg.

Upon announcing my first set of results at work I was instantly bombarded with articles on how its not possible for the cells to work. One Coworker explained to me that based on the energy I am using to create Hydrogen I am wasting my time. It is very frustrating to combat these arguments.

The article they sent me is this one.http://green.autoblog.com/2008/08/04...your-mileage/6

I really would like some of your input as to how best shut these guys up.

I dont have to worry about that one any more. I now have people coming to me to either build them one or place one in there car because they do not know the logistics behind them.

[cabrera]

All I know is that I am jumping for joy today. According to my Mileage calculator I am avg. 48 miles per gallon on my 1995 Jeep Wrangler. 4 cyl.
Before I installed the system I was under 20. I am using KOH as the electrolyte. Im not done yet!!!!

The difference in my jump from 21 to 48 is attributed to making the following modifications I believe.
Switched from Baking Soda to KOH
Added an Oxygen Sensor Extender
Added A MAP/MAF Sensor
Added a Pulse Width Modulator and Amp Meter.
Added an intake line into the first cell coming out of my air cleaner to bring air into the first cell.

Is this a wet or a dry cell?
Also make sure you have flashback protection. An arrestor is an easy build out of pvc, 2 fitting & some bronze wool.
If you are getting that much improvement I personally wouldn't touch a thing. In order to calculate properly fill your tank until the pump clicks off (don't overfill) then drive. Whether city,hwy, or mixed. when you fill up again note your miles driven & fill again until the pump clicks off. This will give you a general idea. It is by no means scientific but it will give you a decent reading. Take into consideration that driving conditions will never be exact as your previous fill and of course your driving habit was not exact, but if you are filling up after driving twice as much, you;re doing great.

[biggy boy]

Two things I'd like to add.

1) To add to cabrera's suggestions, when you fill up always try to use the same pump.
If you get gas at multiple gas stations, the pumps may stop at different amounts due to their setup.
I use an Excel spread sheet to track my mileage.
I recorded three weeks worth of driving before even touching my truck, to make sure the baseline MPG where as accurate as I could get them.

2) I just want to save $$$ on gas



.

[hhonewbie]

2) I just want to save $$$ on gas .

Same here most of us are.
Money saved at the pump is better spent on the bear nessecities like bills or bread on the table.

[Philldpapill]

I very much agree with BiggyBoy. Keeping all the variables constant(e.g. same pump, preferably same ambient temperature outside so that the same pump cuts off at the same vapor level, etc.) is a must in making accurate measurements. Also, when you make MPG measurements, keep a LARGE sample. Ideally, you would drive like 1,000 miles and keep track of the exact amount of gasoline you put in your car. If you have a large sample, any error that may(will always) be present, will be reduced, thus giving you more accurate results.

As for trying to save money, sure - everyone wants to do that. That's just being efficient in your daily life. The question is HOW are you going to save money? I think we are all on the same page by trying to increase our fuel efficiency. The key to this, however, seems to be where we differ. I want to increase my fuel efficiency by figuring out HOW to increase it. To figure out HOW I increase it, requires that I have at least a basic understanding of what is physically going on that PRODUCES the increase in fuel efficiency.

That is my goal - to understand WHAT is going on, so that I can understand HOW to utilize the phenomenon, so that I can save money for the BEER necessities. That should be our philosphy in life - What, How, Beer - End of story.

[biggy boy]

Good point! Philldpapill

For me my main goal is to have fun while I learn about something that I find to be really cool

In this case it all started by googling how to get better mileage. That is how I came across HHO. This was about a month and A half ago. Since then I have read and read and read as much as I can. I did not know this has been going on for several years now.

You know what? I'm glad I just found out about HHO now, because a lot of the trial and error has been taken care of There is lots of examples on the net of how to make a good system, all by people that have been at this for several years. These pioneers sort of speak have made it relatively easy for me.
There is now well designed and proven designs for cells, PWM, Sensor enhancers and even programmable chips that tell the cars computer to use a different fuel table.

So not only am I able to same on gas money but I am having a fun time learning how all this works.