Does injection point of HHO matter????

[richard_lyew]

Richard,

Your question for Phill is the same question i am asking the first post. Why do you think HHO injected 2" from the combustion chamber is better than 3' from the chamber?

What do you mean diluting? The ratio of HHO to Air is still the same where ever you introduce it. Unless it escapes or__________?

Or if you are not sure Why it works better closer. If you have done some experiments that show it does work better closer. could you give some details of that experiment?

diluting means To make thinner or less concentrated. if your HHO has more time to mix with more air what do you think will happend? a. will it be stronger or more potent? b. will it have the same effect? or c. will it be weaker (less concentrated)?

come on people its very simple. if you don't believe me now just wait until you try it for yourself. and hey phill i don't have to prove nothing to you all i do is let the people prove for themselves. Take that big oil

[Buster]

I can vouch for successfully running a turbo diesel engine with HHO without any problems whatsoever. We had about 32% increase in MPG with about 1lpm HHO input into the airbox, and another time just before the air valve 'gate' ..or whatever it's called.
....Just to clear this one up lads.

[richard_lyew]

I can vouch for successfully running a turbo diesel engine with HHO without any problems whatsoever. We had about 32% increase in MPG with about 1lpm HHO input into the airbox, and another time just before the air valve 'gate' ..or whatever it's called.
....Just to clear this one up lads.

Thank you very much

[Roland Jacques]

now everybody please try this, turn on your HHO system and run your HHO out put line to a container of water so it bubbles, now light a flame like say a lighter and hold it about 2 feet above the container, tell the forum if it lite the HHO, then hold it one foot above the container, tell the forum if it lite the HHO, then hold it as close to the bubbles as you can and tell the forum if it lite the HHO.

i hope to see people reply to this post.

This might just be the silly-est thing i have ever heard on a forum. I understand we all have our strong subjects and week ones. So for you Richard i think this is your week subject. It cool you still are ahead of a lot of us in other areas. We are talking apples and oranges here in a big way. You are trying to compare a closed system to a open one. We are talking about a intake system, a closed system.

[Roland Jacques]

diluting means To make thinner or less concentrated. if your HHO has more time to mix with more air what do you think will happend? a. will it be stronger or more potent? b. will it have the same effect? or c. will it be weaker (less concentrated)?

I think it would be the same just mixed better with the air. There wont be any more or less H2 molecules or O2 molecules in the combustion chamber ether way.


That said i think there may be benefits to being closer. I'm still not sure if anyone has every tested it and compared both ways.

[Philldpapill]

I still say that injecting further UP stream(further away from valve intake) is better. My reasoning, is that the vortex nature of incoming air causes better mixing and distribution of the H2 among the intake air. When the H2 is more thorougly mixed, it will be better distributed among the gasoline vapors, causing a faster burn - which, btw, I believe was a fair consensus among us that the better MPG was due to a faster and more even burn of the gasoline.

It probably doesn't make much of a difference, but I think(in theory) that injecting closer to the intake results in "pockets" of H2 among the combustion mixture, rather than mixed evenly among the gasoline...


Richard, elaborate MORE on what you mean "less concentrated" is. Let's say that I have a 1 Liter bottle with a little divider in the middle so it isolates two gases. Half the bottle is filled with a gasoline/oxygen mixture, while the other half is HHO. Now, let's say I take that divider out very quickly. Just as I take it out, what is the concentration of HHO of the top part?(100%) What is the concentration of the bottom part?(0%) What is the concentration of the TOTAL volume?(50%).

Now, what if I put a tiny fan in there, and mix the stuff up thoroughly. What is the concentration of the top half of the bottle?(50%) The bottom half?(50%) The Whole Bottle?(50% - the same as before) The point is, just because the gases aren't mixed, doesn't mean the TOTAL concentration is any different. If your cylinder were filled with half gasoline and half HHO like in the first example(seperated and not mixed), do you REALLY think that is a better mixture for combustion? That is what you are implying when you say you should NOT "dilute" the HHO. It's ridiculous, and VERY illogical. In fact, it's contradictory.

[Helz_McFugly]

if your HHO has more time to mix with more air what do you think will happend

More time? are we talking miliseconds from airbox to combustion chamber.
More air? if you inject near the butterfly or right after the air filter, the air is there, there is no other source of air coming in so where is "More air" coming from. if you put it in a vacume intake that, depending on wherer the vacume comes in, it could get more HHO to one cylinder then one thats farther away from the vacuum intake.

now everybody please try this, turn on your HHO system and run your HHO out put line to a container of water so it bubbles, now light a flame like say a lighter and hold it about 2 feet above the container, tell the forum if it lite the HHO, then hold it one foot above the container, tell the forum if it lite the HHO, then hold it as close to the bubbles as you can and tell the forum if it lite the HHO

this is where you really lost all credibility mon. if you light the bubble its pure HHO. after the bubble pops it delutes into the atmosphere very quickly, which is wide open and will not light. take that same jar and place a tube thats the same diameter, say 1", on top of that jar and make the tube 5 feet or 500 feet. drill a hole in the side of it at the base of the tube and stick a good pc fan in it so there is enough air flow in the tube so there no back flow at the end of the tube. NOW at the end of the tube the HHO is going to be the same F/A ratio as it is at the fan. light it at the end and get back with the forum. NO dont do that. becuase it will explode, but see the logic? there is NO MORE AIR after the air box or you have a leak.

to me, the best placement for your HHO input, if you dont have steam or fluid making that far, is right before throttle body, that way it mixes very well in the intake manifold and gets the same amount of HHO to each combustion chamber.

[biggy boy]

I don't know, everything I have read on this subject suggests it being as close to the motor as possable.

Some say use the vacuum line some say don't, makes it confusing!
Some say using the vacuum line can put a vacuum on the cell and lower the boiling point of the cell. Or could cause the cell fluid to be drawn up into the motor.




P.S.
Cho! coo pon dat bwoy, dat dah mon bwan uh butoo buugoo! Im whan be de controwla all da time.
Sorry Mi Patwa nuh good nuff

[Buster]

I've said before that I personally input into the air box, as it allows any possible overspill to drip down and out the bottom drain hole that the box has.
Now, does all the air which is sucked into the engine get mixed with the fuel, or does some of it just fly out? I don't know, but if it is all mixed with the fuel then the HHO will get used one way or another whether it is inputed at the airbox or the butterfly valve. However, if a lot of the air intake is just kindof used as space filler, I don't know?? it could then be more beneficial to get as much of the HHO as close to the fuel intake and combustion point as possible. (Don't all jump down my neck about this, I'm only questioning what I don't know???)
Anyway, on another note, for those who don't know, HHO is not just the same old HHO whatever. There is a very important difference which has dramatic effects on the power that it produces, namely H- ions as oposed to HH. (spare me if I got the details wrong, but you should know what I mean) I think the H- are normally in limited number and degenerate after a time back into HH, so getting the HHO as close to the combustion as possible with mixing with anything CAN be advantagous, if H- ions is what you have. Also think of the 'Browns Gas' energy increase effect.
Maybe some of you can remember the details better than I have explained it, so that I don't have to look it up to clarify....

So if anyone wants to slam their fist down on the table and say that such and such is so, and anything else is impossible or rediculous, you better put your hard hat on first, 'cos you're going to get knocked down continually.
What the BEEP do we all know in the grand scheme of things anyway!! Let's just see what works and what doesn't and not write ideas off too quickly.

[Roland Jacques]

I've said before that I personally input into the air box, as it allows any possible overspill to drip down and out the bottom drain hole that the box has..

Id make sure you dont get any bubblier fluid in your intake at all. But you have a point

Now, does all the air which is sucked into the engine get mixed with the fuel, or does some of it just fly out? .

Not sure what you mean, fly out?

I don't know, but if it is all mixed with the fuel then the HHO will get used one way or another whether it is inputed at the airbox or the butterfly valve. However, if a lot of the air intake is just kindof used as space filler, I don't know?? it could then be more beneficial to get as much of the HHO as close to the fuel intake and combustion point as possible..

(Don't all jump down my neck about this, I'm only questioning what I don't know???)
Anyway, on another note, for those who don't know, HHO is not just the same old HHO whatever. There is a very important difference which has dramatic effects on the power that it produces, namely H- ions as oposed to HH. (spare me if I got the details wrong, but you should know what I mean) I think the H- are normally in limited number and degenerate after a time back into HH, so getting the HHO as close to the combustion as possible with mixing with anything CAN be advantagous, if H- ions is what you have. Also think of the 'Browns Gas' energy increase effect.
Maybe some of you can remember the details better than I have explained it, so that I don't have to look it up to clarify.....

yes I've read this before also. but I have never heard anyone truly support this idea.

So if anyone wants to slam their fist down on the table and say that such and such is so, and anything else is impossible or rediculous, you better put your hard hat on first, 'cos you're going to get knocked down continually.
What the BEEP do we all know in the grand scheme of things anyway!! Let's just see what works and what doesn't and not write ideas off too quickly.

I was hoping that some more people that have actually done some comparative testing on this subject would chime in.