+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Cold Climate HHO Operation

  1. #1
    HYDROTEKPRO Guest

    Question Cold Climate HHO Operation

    Winter and below freezing temperatures are just around the corner. The northern regions get the most cold for the longest periods.

    Regular electrolyzers (unless the percentage of KOH for example is very strong) will freeze, not to mention the safety bubbler.

    Is there yet a concensus as to what is the most ideal method/technique to keep electrolyzers functioning well in freezing weather?

    The most attractive idea we've seen thus far is using the little, low amperage, heater pads that can be stuck on the side of an electrolyzer, and then wired into a permanent battery circuit. Of course an on/off switch would be a nice touch for spring through fall.

    There are also battery warmers which are basically small electric blankets for the battery. This seems like too much of a hassle.

    Other ideas such as using alcohol in the electrolyte, or even windshield wiper fluid (Yes, odd as it sounds, it's been recommended by some. My windshield wiper fluid freezes during the coldest part of winter). Notwithstanding future test results, this seems like an obvious compromise of electrolyte quality, and gas production.

    One company runs an engine coolant line right through the electrolyzer to quickly warm it up during winter. This wouldn't seem to help thermal run-away during the non-freezing months. And until enough warm-up of the electrolyte, there's no HHO production.

    Surely there must be some element, chemical, or product that will act as an electrolyzer anti-freeze. Sodium hydroxide would probably be the first substance to test, to find the freezing points, of various concentrations. However, this does not address the freezing of the safety bubbler.

  2. #2
    rtckjc Guest

    Default

    I ripped this from another site. It sound like a very reasonable idea. WINTER OPERATION -

    ALWAYS PRE-MIX the electrolyte in an open container when adding denatured alcohol to the Sodium Hydroxide and distilled water. Let the mixture sit, uncontained/uncapped, for about 30 minutes before adding the mixture to the MileageMaker device.

    The cell, like other pieces of equipment utilizing H2O that is exposed to below freezing elements, must be protected from freezing hard during cold weather. This can be accomplished by adding denatured alcohol in order to achieve a 5% to 15% alcohol solution. A 5% solution (about 8 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 10º F.. A 10% solution (about 13 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 0º F.. A 15% solution (about 21 liquid oz. per gallon) will protect against a hard freeze down to about -15º F.. 28 ounces per gallon will protect to about -30ºF..

    For below-freezing initial start-up: Mix 1 gallon distilled water, denatured alcohol (8 to 28 liquid oz.), and Sodium Hydroxide 32 oz. by weight, in an open container and let the mixture sit open for 30 minutes before closing or transferring the mixture to a closed container. There will be an initial reaction causing the mixture to get very warm and expand, so keep the mixing container open to accommodate the heating and expansion, before capping the mixing container or adding the mixture to the cells.

    When the cell requires replacement electrolyte for continued below-freezing operation, be sure to include 8 to 28 liquid ounces of denatured alcohol with each gallon of distilled water, along with 1/2 ounce by weight (about 1 teaspoon) of Sodium Hydroxide in the replacement water to maintain the 5% to 15% alcohol solution and replace any Sodium Hydroxide in the cells, which may have been neutralized with use.

  3. #3
    HYDROTEKPRO Guest

    Default

    I have heard this from a couple of sources now. Either alcohol or windshield wiper fluid.

    Has anybody honestly used this during winter? How about gas production?

  4. #4
    godoveryou Guest

    Default

    Alcohol is perfectly suitable and doesn't have a dramatic effect on production. I live in Ohio, and have had many 0 degree days in winter. It's fine.

  5. #5
    HYDROTEKPRO Guest

    Default

    I hate to be picky, but!

    It's great that you live in a cold region, and I respect your opinion that it will work fine.

    Has no one even used alcohol or windshield wiper fluid for cold weather, yet some people recommend it?

    Isn't there anybody who can give a direct, relevent answer to a direct question? Who has actually used either of these? And what were your results? Was is great? Was it crappy? Was it so-so?

    Remind me to check my blinker fluid next time I get gas.

  6. #6
    Atechguy Guest

    Default

    There should be someone in North pole that can test it, or just add some to your Cell test it for production in warm weather to see reaction, then stick in your freezer , but montior it so you don't crack your unit. ITS SO EASY A CAVEMAN COULD DO IT, JUST JOKING.

  7. #7
    godoveryou Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HYDROTEKPRO View Post
    I hate to be picky, but!

    It's great that you live in a cold region, and I respect your opinion that it will work fine.

    Has no one even used alcohol or windshield wiper fluid for cold weather, yet some people recommend it?

    Isn't there anybody who can give a direct, relevent answer to a direct question? Who has actually used either of these? And what were your results? Was is great? Was it crappy? Was it so-so?

    Remind me to check my blinker fluid next time I get gas.
    I have/do use alcohol in my generator. Why else would I post in this thread

  8. #8
    GOplayer Guest

    Thumbs up Lot of HHO production!

    9-19-08
    2000 Chevy Cargo Van 1500 Six Cylinder 4.3 L engine. Lot of HHO running only 1 of the six HOD Gens. ! MPG is up from 16 to 21.78 on first test run! Black deposit of some sort on electrodes!
    I done it. 32 weight OZ HaOH to 2 gal of water plus about 56 fluid OZ Ethanol. The HHO production was better than expected! Mixing the HaOH was not easy, despite being slow and careful with it, the solidification of NaOH did occur on the bottom of the container. Also, due to system leaks, I had to drain my HOD Gens. and then refill, at which time I used more water so the original solution was diluted probably to by 60+%. Since I was working on this for weeks, I was ready to see this HOD either work or I throw out the entire thing, so I was not very scientific about the measurements. For sure the NaOH was way more concentrated then I ever used it before (5 g/ 1L of water). The initial HHO production is beyond my expectation. I am generating a lot of gas and the first road test of 253 miles brought up my 16-18 MPG to 21.78 using only one of the 6 HOD Gen. installed. One problem did occurred: About 200 miles into my test drive, I noticed a reduced HHO production. (One of the bubbler is inside of the cargo area so I can keep my eye on gas production). A closer examination of the coil shows blackened SS wire. Despite the temperature being under 116 F apparently I did create some deposit on the SS electrodes. Can it be the Ethanol? Was it the NaOH? Perhaps the “Cold Well” (type of epoxy I used to seal up the various openings on the HOD Generator?


    Quote Originally Posted by rtckjc View Post
    I ripped this from another site. It sound like a very reasonable idea. WINTER OPERATION -

    ALWAYS PRE-MIX the electrolyte in an open container when adding denatured alcohol to the Sodium Hydroxide and distilled water. Let the mixture sit, uncontained/uncapped, for about 30 minutes before adding the mixture to the MileageMaker device.

    The cell, like other pieces of equipment utilizing H2O that is exposed to below freezing elements, must be protected from freezing hard during cold weather. This can be accomplished by adding denatured alcohol in order to achieve a 5% to 15% alcohol solution. A 5% solution (about 8 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 10º F.. A 10% solution (about 13 liquid oz. per gallon of water) will protect against a hard freeze down to about 0º F.. A 15% solution (about 21 liquid oz. per gallon) will protect against a hard freeze down to about -15º F.. 28 ounces per gallon will protect to about -30ºF..

    For below-freezing initial start-up: Mix 1 gallon distilled water, denatured alcohol (8 to 28 liquid oz.), and Sodium Hydroxide 32 oz. by weight, in an open container and let the mixture sit open for 30 minutes before closing or transferring the mixture to a closed container. There will be an initial reaction causing the mixture to get very warm and expand, so keep the mixing container open to accommodate the heating and expansion, before capping the mixing container or adding the mixture to the cells.

    When the cell requires replacement electrolyte for continued below-freezing operation, be sure to include 8 to 28 liquid ounces of denatured alcohol with each gallon of distilled water, along with 1/2 ounce by weight (about 1 teaspoon) of Sodium Hydroxide in the replacement water to maintain the 5% to 15% alcohol solution and replace any Sodium Hydroxide in the cells, which may have been neutralized with use.
    32wieght OZ Lye+ 28 Fluid OZ Ethanol + 128 Fluid OZ Water. All right, I am willing to try it but the ratio of NaOH seems to be way too high compare to other postings I read in the past. My limited experience was based on 5 ml. per 32 fluid OZ water and my HOD Gen did fairly well, actually over heated after 15 miles. Now I am about to put 32 weight OZ NaOH into 128 Fluid OZ water??? WOW, this is way out there. Any comments?
    Last edited by GOplayer; 09-20-2008 at 03:39 AM. Reason: Update

  9. #9
    hhocavalier Guest

    Default

    were i live i dont get to many days below freezing but in my old car that dident have antifreez in it, on days it was that cold when id park id throw a blankit over the hood and a shop light under the car for the night. just thout for thous that dont see many freez days this may help

  10. Default

    Hi Guys,

    I live in Canada( Toronto) and I ordered Hydro Club USA Dry cell and installed last month but because of weather which is -20 cannot operate.
    Hydro Club USA told me add more potassium Hydroxide and it will work so I added a plenty as suggested next day noticed the Cell was leaking and all the liquid was gone and my cell is broken now.

    I don't think this solution is working for under zero environment like Canada.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts