Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 98

Thread: Maybe it's the Steam?

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NorthEast Fla.
    Posts
    988

    Why're yall making this sooo complicated?

    Cold water fog/mist into intake cools intake charge/increases density ergo turbo boost pressure = higher compression... Combustion, with or without HHO, flashes water to superheated steam = higher compression. Steam wishes to occupy about 1600 times the physical space (at atmospheric pressure) that the amount of water that made the aforementioned steam previously occupied. Except it's not at atmospheric pressure is it? NOooo.. It's crammed into the top of a cylinder with a bunch of burning hydrocarbon fuel and donating it's expansive energies to the general push to get out = more bang for the buck. G'nite...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    So I'm just going to jump into this thread. I've read quite a bit on this subject over the years and may have something to contribute.
    So as far at an HHO cell making steam, it just seems like a bad approach, KOH and extra alternator draw is reason enough to look elsewhere. Making steam into HHO is a different subject. I read somewhere that GE developed a electrolyzer for steam. It separated the H and the O and had a lot of platinum in it, but this is a field worth exploring. The book I read this in said it was highly efficient, but I don't know the voltage used or anything useful like that.

    Okay so with water and or steam thinking about boiling point and pressure is quite important. wikipedia Boiling_point
    So if you put warm water into your intake, it will likely boil in the vacuum. Then it gets compressed in the cylinder and condenses, then it gets super heated and boils, producing lots of pressure.
    If it is already steam going into the intake, about the same thing happens.

    So with a compression ration of 10:1 you would have 140PSI pre-combustion, at this pressure water boils at about 350F; a temp unlikely to be seen pre-combustion, but defiantly seen post.

    So if we are pumping steam into the engine, the steam quality (aka dryness) don't matter much. If we just spray water in it will do about the same thing, it's just harder to atomize as well.

    To make the steam we could just warm the water up to the rad. water temp, and let it boil under vacuum. Or use a crude exhaust heat boiler. I say do anything but heat it with electricity, as that will rob you engine of energy with a draw on the alternator, there are just too many other options.

    The major problem I see is: how much water/steam do we want? It should be proportional to the fuel used, so if you set it up, have an on/off switch and set if for highway driving... or what would be really sweet (and expensive) is a extra fuel injector in the manifold spraying water on the same pulse signal as the other injectors, with a high pressure water supply.
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Just a little experience I had. 1974 Dodge van 360 carb 1 ton. I installed a commercially available drip system because I was pulling a 28 foot trailer from California to North Dakota. It had a vacuum line hooked to some kind of electronics that controlled the amount of water dripped into the carb. I noticed major difference on climbing hills and at one station where we filled up the gas was so bad that I passed other cars stopped on the road who I had met at the same station who thought their engines had blown up because of the extreme amount of pinging. I had none. To my amazement there was no gain in mileage with it on or off. The reason I brought this up was because of using vacuum to control the system is a simple way to control the system except in a diesels.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    From what I've read, FE gains are not that common. But with water/steam you can lean it way out.
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NorthEast Fla.
    Posts
    988
    Owen,
    Cold mist is going to give you the denser intake charge. Higher pressure (70 psi) 12v pumps are available at Northern Tool. I just bought one this week, it's for spraying weed killer, fertilizer and insecticides. I'm using it on my diesel. High pressure and a properly sized & shaped nozzle orifice are what is going to give you the fog-like quality of mist that you seek and is called for. No macrodrops, just microdroplets.

    On another board I follow, a couple of guys developed an exhaust heat operated nickel tube catalytic device that turns urine into co2, steam and hydrogen rather efficiently, enough to run a generator on. Here in HHOForums, I have learned of Larry's experiments with very low voltage electrolysis and urea based electrolyte.
    So, I propose an experiment, the development of a completely new type of high temperature steam/H2/HHO cell & electrical generator that utilizes only waste heat from the engine to make the steam, hydrogen, electricity and HHO. You got game, Owen? 'Cause I already got a design, it just bullied its way into the front of my mind while I was reading your post. Give me a day or two to work up a conceptual plan to present for critique.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    and what is this other forum?.. I really shouldn't ask, I just got a little obsessive with another, new to me, forum: ecomodder.com

    also; I look forward to seeing your plans!
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    also, on the a mentioned forum, I have been discussing heat recovery for a ICE. Primarily the discussion has been aiming a little low; to power the alternator off steam. But making an effective boiler off the exhaust and cooling system is what it's all about.

    A few years back I wrote a grant for a local competition thing. I proposed an exhaust boiler powering a turbine which turned a generator, which made HHO. The research from that project is actually why I found this place! The grant didn't work out, it was more of an art thing anyway (I have a background in fine art, which is why i know art is bull $hit, engineering is where it's at). So I have read a lot of old books about boilers, and steam quality and....
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NorthEast Fla.
    Posts
    988
    LOL! No prob on the plans, starting them now. OUpower.com is the other forum, got your usual mix from wizards to weirdos. Try to stay away from the OU topics, Luke... There is much reading on the dark side.
    So what did you get obsessive about at the new board???
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    The most impressive thing to me is the many people doing aerodynamic modifications to there cars, and with impressive results. No one seems to know anything about HHO, other than the scams, so I've been posting a bit on that. I've also been experimenting with my driving style based on things brought up. Now I'm trying accelerating at an average of about 2,800RPM and 75% throttle (rather brisk for me), and then popping it into N for as long as possible, then jumping back up to seed and repeat. I used to drive as gently as possible, but have found that my engine gives much more torque for the fuel if run a little harder (but not too hard).
    I'm enjoying OUpower already. I'm exited to see a foundry,smelting, casting category, backyard aluminum casting is one of my fondest pasted times!
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    103
    Oh, also, do you use the same SN at OUpower? It's just nice to know, I just registered as DrJerryrigger, as I used to be known here, that is until I got band for spamming
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •