Need some guidance on designing a cell for my car

[Trike]

Cool,

I do want to build it, I'm just trying to source out all the parts for a reasonable price. That ebay seller with the plates hasn't responded to me with shipping charges yet. I'm starting to think he's a flake. It has been 3 days so far. I wish I had a laser cutter to cut my own plates. I'd like to build a nice clean generator for around $100 or less. Might not be possible If I buy pre-cut gaskets. We'll see. I'm hoping to build the entire setup for under $500. The setup should give me enough flexibility to maximize gains on my motor.

[Trike]

got the plates ordered. 3 power plates and 10 neutrals. going to order the gaskets next

[Trike]

I just found a local source for 3/4" HDPE for the end plates. $14.22 for 2 7.5" x 7.5" x 3/4" sheets.

for the refill/discharge ports, is 2 3/8" nylon barbs good enough?

As for location of the ports, do I place them right over the holes in the power plate?

Progress is underway, things are being ordered. Soon enough, I'll be putting it all together.

[biggy boy]

As for location of the ports, do I place them right over the holes in the power plate?

That's were I put mine, lined up with the holes in the plates.

I used 1/2 inch threaded ports in the end plates but that could be overkill.
My reasoning for the large outlet was, I believe the wider the diameter of the tub the less likely the HHO gas will be able to push fluid up the pipe and more likely for the fluid to run back down into the gen. I believe if the exit tube is real small the gas will push the generators cell fluid into the bubblers.
Column effect I think it is called.

[Trike]

Thanks Biggy,

If there's no harm in going bigger, I'll use 1/2" fittings as well.

[Trike]

So, I'm going to need a power supply to bench test the cell. The largest regulated power supply i have is 16 amps. Not nearly enough to do real testing.

So i'm in need for a cheap high current power supply 30-50amps.
Is it possible for me to bridge (parrallel) some lower powered ATX power supplies to get the needed power? I have a 550watt ATX psu laying around, Could I combine the 12v rails in parallel to get more current?

I also have a craftsman mig wire fed welder that looks like it uses DC. It has jumpers inside to change the polarity. I'm not sure what the output voltage is, maybe 40v? Anyway to convert it/stepdown to use as a DC power supply?

Just seeing if there's a cheap feasible DIY route.

I've ordered shane's PCB and the rest of the components from mouser to build the PWM controller as well.

[Trike]

I just crunched some numbers based on what buster said the recommendations are.

The 6x6 plates with the gaskets takes the surface area down to 5x5

Area of 5"x5" plate = 25sq/in
Area of both notches (1"x1" notch) = 2(.50") = 1
Area of both ports (3/8") = 2(.1104) = .22078
Total area of notches and ports = 1.22078
Total production surface area = 25 - 1.22078 = 23.78in^2

Based on Busters 2-4 sq/in per amp.
I'll get between 5.945A and 11.89A per series.
Since I'll have two, that comes out to 11.89A and 23.78A

I think because of the gaskets and notches, I lose a lot of surface area. Buster mentioned his will pull 50amps. If my math is correct, 23.78A is significantly lower than Buster's 50A. My concern is not enough output, but I can start here and add more plates later.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions on the theoretical 23.78A draw on the 13 plate cell?

[Buster]

I have found that this size cell (ie. 2x7 series, 6"x6"plates), if uncontrolled, will go up to over 50A draw if uncontrolled. I would personally run them at no more than about 25A total.
We've found that this is as much as is necessary on a couple of litre cc engine or so, as higher amp draw seems to actually decrease MPG above around this level.

If you've got a bigger vehicle you may want to increase the number of series of plates to produce more HHO, but the same amps per series should still apply, so, with a 3x7 series control with a PWM to keep the complete cell at under around 37.5 and so on for every added series.

These are roundabout figures to give you an idea, but always test things out and see what actually suits your vehicle best.

[Trike]

Alright, So I got the 13 plates, but the seller shipped me the wrong plates! he shipped me 10 power plates and 3 neutral plates instead of 10 neutral and 3 power.

If I arrange the plates where the three power plates are on one side. I'm not sure if I'll have enough clearance between the plates so they don't short.

I'm also not sure if there will be any current leakage with the extra tabs sticking out on the neutral plates. He apologized and said he'll ship me out the correct set, but I would have to ship him back the plates, which would be $$$.

I could cut the tabs, but the whole point of me buying the pre cut plates was to get nice clean cuts.

Any suggestions on how to make this work?

Don't even get me started on the gaskets, I ordered them last week and the seller refunded me my money without any explanations. I paid again thinking it was a fluke and it got refunded again without any explanation. heh. *sigh*

[Helz_McFugly]

NO you wont lose any current and it wont short unless you bend something. you can just put them on backwards or upside down so the tabs are on the other side and that will make them N plates. I think its better you got it like that just incase you ever want to try a different configuration.

EDIT: as long as all the holes match up. I should have said that above.