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Thread: Kool-Aid?

  1. #1
    nickalderson Guest

    Kool-Aid?

    I read on another forum of someone using unsweetened lemonaid Kool-Aid as an electrolyte. He said he just gradually mixed it into the distilled water little by little until he was drawing 20 amps. He said it now starts cold at 16 amps and holds at 20 amps with no goo. He didn't have a lpm test done, but he said it was producing well.

    I like the idea of making a polycarbonated box for a generator, but I've read that NaOH and KOH can break it down. I was hoping someone could test out the Kool-Aid to see what type of production they get compared to KOH?

    I know some are probably thinking, why don't you test it yourself, but my budget doesn't allow for experimentation. I'm hoping I can make a generator that produces well the first time, and I'm doing a ton of research to try to make that happen.

    The guy that tried this said that he just bought some of the little $.10 packs. If lemonaid Kool-Aid really works, it could be a very cheap and very easily attainable alternative to KOH. If you decide to try it, remember to get the kind with no sugar added.

  2. #2
    I don't think NaOH is any more expensive than Koolaid... Let's do a little math here...

    I bought a 1 lb container of NaOH for $3.99 at Ace Hardware. I put 1 TSP in a gallon of water. I'm guessing here, but I would think you'd get approx 100 TSPS from the lb container. At a cost of $0.10 a pack of Koolaid, & if one pack did as good as 1 TSP of NaOH, but I doubt it, .10 x 100 = $10. NaOH is way cheaper, not to mention all the who knows what is being put in your electrolyser from the Koolaid.
    1998 Ford Ranger 3.0 liter V6
    Modified Smack design installed 6/20/08
    Modest gains of about 1.5 MPG (17.8 to 19.3)
    No sensor controls (yet)

  3. #3
    dennis13030 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by dennyk159 View Post
    I don't think NaOH is any more expensive than Koolaid... Let's do a little math here...

    I bought a 1 lb container of NaOH for $3.99 at Ace Hardware. I put 1 TSP in a gallon of water. I'm guessing here, but I would think you'd get approx 100 TSPS from the lb container. At a cost of $0.10 a pack, & if one pack did as good as 1 TSP of NaOH, but I doubt it, .10 x 100 = $10. NaOH is way cheaper.
    I don't know if Koolaid is persistent or not. If it is, then 1 or 2 packs of Koolaid is a lot cheaper to use. As long as you do not completely replace the electrolyte on a regular basis.

  4. #4
    nickalderson Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by dennyk159 View Post
    I don't think NaOH is any more expensive than Koolaid... Let's do a little math here...

    I bought a 1 lb container of NaOH for $3.99 at Ace Hardware. I put 1 TSP in a gallon of water. I'm guessing here, but I would think you'd get approx 100 TSPS from the lb container. At a cost of $0.10 a pack of Koolaid, & if one pack did as good as 1 TSP of NaOH, but I doubt it, .10 x 100 = $10. NaOH is way cheaper, not to mention all the who knows what is being put in your electrolyser from the Koolaid.
    Price wasn't my only thought. By-products, residue and any other side effects of any electrolyte were actually my primary thought. For instance, NaOH is not supposed to be good to use with polycarbonate, because it breaks it down over time. I don't know the chemical composition of unsweetened Koolaid, so I don't know what it might do. Any chemists out there that can figure this one out?

    No offense, but I think the application of math deserves a little more precision than you are giving. Your math conclusion is coming from estimations and assumptions, which aren't data.

  5. #5
    dennis13030 Guest

    Lemon Juice

    I thought about trying filtered lemon juice for the electrolyte mix. What do you guys think?

  6. #6
    HYDROTEKPRO Guest
    Run a couple of tests and then tell us!

  7. #7
    Certainly no offense taken, Nick... but there are really only 2 unknowns in my math: Exactly how many TSPs of NaOH are in a lb, & by the way I realize there are no TSPs in a lb, since one is volume, the other is mass. I did, however compare the 1 lb plastic jar to being close to the size of a pint, & there are 96 TSPs in a pint. The other unknown is how many packs of Koolaid it takes to get an equal production of HHO as the NaOH would yield. I did, albeit my guess, figure 1 koolaid pack per half gallon of water. I suppose only because that's the dilution rate on the koolaid package.

    It's just that using anything like koolaid, baking soda, vinegar, or lemon juice which is citric acid plus some other unknowns (to me), as dennis13030 has suggested, is putting, there it is again, unknowns, into the mix. I would just rather keep it simple. Using NaOH or KOH puts only one other element into it (Na or K). I'm not sure if the OH stays in solution or not, but if it comes out as a gas, that's just more H & O. The Na or K must stay dissolved or else your electrolyte would get depleted. I have a friend that was swearing by vinegar, but he was getting all kinds of gunk buildup too. I did not think of the effects on the container. I use PVC, & temperature is way more detrimental than a chemical reaction with it per http://www.dynalabcorp.com/technical_info_pvc.asp.

    Here is a quote from lukeoid1:

    Quote Originally Posted by lukeoid1
    Another thing with baking soda I just found out, it degrades at higher than 140 degrees F. Sodium hydroxide (Lye) supposedly will take a temp of 300+.
    I tried baking soda, but Lye works better in that:
    1. cleaner plates, so less maintenance, and plates last longer
    2. cleaner electrolyte, much much less of a problem here : (with baking soda, very murky after 4 days back and forth to work)
    3. much better HHO production, IMPRESSIVE
    4. less heat : Just got a pwm, but getting impressive production at only 5-6 amps!

    I'm so pleased with the change, I think you will be too. You can get it at Lowes, and on tub will last a very long time.

    As was mentioned elsewhere, always wear safety goggles with servicing. I keep a big bucket of water and a hose ready and close by when doing any work her for additional safety. Just be careful. Have a plan to deal with splashes and spills, and things will be good.
    I just think simpler is better. My opinion only.
    1998 Ford Ranger 3.0 liter V6
    Modified Smack design installed 6/20/08
    Modest gains of about 1.5 MPG (17.8 to 19.3)
    No sensor controls (yet)

  8. #8
    nickalderson Guest
    How about this stuff Dennis?

  9. #9
    dennis13030 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by nickalderson View Post
    How about this stuff Dennis?
    That is what I was going to use.

  10. #10
    Atechguy Guest
    I'm using pure citric acid in my cell with distilled water ,i read on another forum of some guy using it , i now i blew a 30 amp fuse, i don't have amp meter yet and i have only had my new cell installed for less the a week, but seems to be producing nicely, will get back with results ,i would think it will help in keeping my plates clean ajnd having a neo citran when needed.

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