What is the most EFFICENT use of 12 Volts, in plate design?

[Stratous]

What, pray tell, is the difference in heat generation between a single cell with 6 U plates and 6 separate series connected cells?

Please expand on your theory.

BoyntonStu

6 seperate cells only have 2 volts each which leaves about .7 volts for heat generation. In a single cell using the U plates, your still applying 13.8 volts to the cell. Yes the U plates resist the excess voltage, but heat is still generated by the resistive action. If we assume that 10 amps are drawn in each design, then the 6 cell system will only have about 20 watts per cell. In the single cell design you will have about 140 watts. In the 6 cell design about 12 watts is used for production of hydrogen, the left over 8 watts is wasted as heat. In the single cell it still takes only 12 watts but you have 122 watts left unused. The U plates will produce hydrogen as well, but not as much as the main plates, meaning they are less efficient. The loss of efficiency is left as heat. The use of the U plate is used as a cheap alternative to making several seperate cells. We all know its not as good.

[BoyntonStu]

"2. "

Q: In this scheme would only the water be contained seperately and a free flow of gases above the cell's be desired? would this kinda thing work?

it has seperate areas but then there is about a 2-4mm gap at the top so there is a little free flow of air between the areas, but as a container it is all sealed from outside air...

this seems like an interesting design, but what are its advantages? and what happens when you go over a big bump and the water splashes all around and all the areas mix leaving some areas with more water and others with less?

You can build 6 cells in a single bath, but you should place a nonconductive spacer between each cell. This will keep them from leaking current. You want the units isolated from each other as much as possible.

The definition of a U cell is that it is not electrically connected to any other plate. The space between ALL cells is filled with electrolyte which needs to be conductive. That is why you add KOH to distilled water, to make it a conductor.


Air above the cells is OK.


BoyntonStu

[Stratous]

BTW, I like the table saw. I see your an amature inventor, unless I have you mistaken for someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Boyntonstu
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/websit...nore-list.html
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/misc-d...mpty-test.html

[midnight1957]

Boyntonstu, are you a lawyer????????????/

I am trying to understand cells and hydrogen production. Stratous, here is a question for you and anyone else that wants to help me. I have built a generator with the following plates ++ nn - - . I connected it to my charger for about a half hour and very little if anything happened. I had to stop because I have to start getting ready for vacation next week. I had been following another guy that said his cell produced about 3/4 liter a minute which he said was enough to help with his S10 truck, he said any more than that and the mileage would decrease, is that true? his cell was + - + , when I tried it it produced some foam but not enough gas to make bubbles come out of a 1/4 inch bubbler tube, he said I must have had a leak but I don't think so.
When you guys speak of a cell please explain, is a cell one + and one - or what. If mine was + + n n - - what was it two cells. My plates are 3 1/2 X7 1/2 in a 2 gallon container with about 2/3 of the plates submerged. I didn't add any kind of electrolyte, he said he never adds any, but I also have very little foam.
What is my problem, and Stratous explain the cell you want to build in + N - or whatever. I am just trying to understand the terms you guys use and trying to learn how to make a decent amount od hydrogen.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

[BoyntonStu]

BTW, I like the table saw. I see your an amature inventor, unless I have you mistaken for someone else.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Boyntonstu
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/websit...nore-list.html
http://www.suijuris.net/forum/misc-d...mpty-test.html

Yes. Check out my $100 home built elevator.

I don't talk bull, I build.


Beauty is temporary, but stupidity is forever.

Some of these young guys seem afraid to learn anything.


BoyntonStu

[Stratous]

Boyntonstu, are you a lawyer????????????/

I am trying to understand cells and hydrogen production. Stratous, here is a question for you and anyone else that wants to help me. I have built a generator with the following plates ++ nn - - . I connected it to my charger for about a half hour and very little if anything happened. I had to stop because I have to start getting ready for vacation next week. I had been following another guy that said his cell produced about 3/4 liter a minute which he said was enough to help with his S10 truck, he said any more than that and the mileage would decrease, is that true? his cell was + - + , when I tried it it produced some foam but not enough gas to make bubbles come out of a 1/4 inch bubbler tube, he said I must have had a leak but I don't think so.
When you guys speak of a cell please explain, is a cell one + and one - or what. If mine was + + n n - - what was it two cells. My plates are 3 1/2 X7 1/2 in a 2 gallon container with about 2/3 of the plates submerged. I didn't add any kind of electrolyte, he said he never adds any, but I also have very little foam.
What is my problem, and Stratous explain the cell you want to build in + N - or whatever. I am just trying to understand the terms you guys use and trying to learn how to make a decent amount od hydrogen.

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

If you rework your cell and make it +n-n+ you will get alot more production. I am not sure how your friend gets 3/4 liter per minute using distilled water. Distilled water is almost non conductive, adding electrolyte is as far as I know a neccessity. I would consider your current cell design to be one cell because of the way its designed. I really should download the program that allows me to draw. In an electrolyte solution the current travels from negative to positive, so in your current design, you have a single arch. The outter negative plate and outter positve plate most likely are not working because the current is going to take the least resistive path. So it would likely travel from the inner neg plate through and around the N plates to the inner positive plate. In the design +NN-NN+ your current travel will look like an M or a McDonalds arch. Some of the current will leak around the plates but that is for another days dicussion. N plate just means a plate that isnt connected directly to the power source. It sits between the anode and cathode. It isnt really neutral as the current passes through it. It acts more like a resistor decreasing the voltage by about 2 volts. So a cell like this +N- may have 12 volts applied at the anode and cathode, but if you measure from the N plate to the cathode it will read about 10 volts. I hope this is enough to get you started.

[BoyntonStu]

If you rework your cell and make it +n-n+ you will get alot more production. I am not sure how your friend gets 3/4 liter per minute using distilled water. Distilled water is almost non conductive, adding electrolyte is as far as I know a neccessity. I would consider your current cell design to be one cell because of the way its designed. I really should download the program that allows me to draw. In an electrolyte solution the current travels from negative to positive, so in your current design, you have a single arch. The outter negative plate and outter positve plate most likely are not working because the current is going to take the least resistive path. So it would likely travel from the inner neg plate through and around the N plates to the inner positive plate. In the design +NN-NN+ your current travel will look like an M or a McDonalds arch. Some of the current will leak around the plates but that is for another days dicussion. N plate just means a plate that isnt connected directly to the power source. It sits between the anode and cathode. It isnt really neutral as the current passes through it. It acts more like a resistor decreasing the voltage by about 2 volts. So a cell like this +N- may have 12 volts applied at the anode and cathode, but if you measure from the N plate to the cathode it will read about 10 volts. I hope this is enough to get you started.

So a cell like this +N- may have 12 volts applied at the anode and cathode, but if you measure from the N plate to the cathode it will read about 10 volts.

Actually, it will measure 6 Volts, not 10 Volts.

Try it.

BoyntonStu

[Stratous]

I have tried it several times.

[Stratous]

Well, I dont think I have actually tried it with just 1 N plate, so I will go try it here shortly. Shouldnt take long as I already have all the stuff to do it.

[Stratous]

Ok, I stand corrected. After testing a 3 plate design of +N- with a spacing of about 1 inch. The total input voltage was 12.28V. Voltage from either the negative terminal or positive terminal to the N plate was ~6 volts. I then added another N plate so the setup was +NN-, the voltage was like this.

- N N +
~8v~4v

After I had completed this test, I decreased the spacing to about 1/4 inch to see if spacing had an effect. It did not, the voltage step was the same. I am not sure why I didnt catch this before as I have tested voltage across the N plates several times. I suppose its because I have only tested on different designs like +nn-nn+ and +nnn-nnn+