guidance on plate setup (pic)

[borgdrone]

was going to use a 30amp relay to make sure it turned on with my car anyways, so probably I'll use both.
30 relay to switch it on, and try that $40 PWM to regulate it. Probably will do more than 30amp on the relay though then, as I don't want to melt it out. 20-30 amp is supposed to be ideal in the car from what I've read...

found an inexpensive 60/80 amp relay (60-80 range i guess?). http://cgi.ebay.com/60-80-AMP-RELAY-...d=p3286.c0.m14
I don't think I'll need 80 amps, 40 or 50 amp relay should be good enough I'd think to keep from burning out if I'm pulling 30 through my PWM for HHO.

THanks Helz!

[Helz_McFugly]

yea the 30 or 40 amp should be enough for what you are doing. I was jsut making the point that a relay doesnt control amps. it just allows you to not have to run your large gauge wire up to your dash, or where ever you switch is to turn it on/off.

what guage wire are you going to use? I wouldnt use anything smaller then 10 guage just to be safe. If that gets to hot youve got to much e-lytes in there. heat = loss of current. If youre pulling even colse to 30 amps with the cell in the pic youll be boiling water.

[borgdrone]

yea the 30 or 40 amp should be enough for what you are doing. I was jsut making the point that a relay doesnt control amps. it just allows you to not have to run your large gauge wire up to your dash, or where ever you switch is to turn it on/off.

what guage wire are you going to use? I wouldnt use anything smaller then 10 guage just to be safe. If that gets to hot youve got to much e-lytes in there. heat = loss of current. If youre pulling even colse to 30 amps with the cell in the pic youll be boiling water.

Friend of mine has some heavy wire for high-amp current he's going to help me wire up. He runs a dozen things in the dash of his car so he's used to that stuff I'd rather have a relay anyhow, because otherwise I'll forget to turn the blasted thing off at some point... I just know it!

I'm guessing a dry cell is the only way to keep from boiling water. I was going to use KOH as electrolyte. I don't have the money for a lot of good quality steel plates and stuff right now. Especially if I need to get these other things too.

Plus, I changed my cell, I've got -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- with the -'s ran from one plate off to the other. 3mm gaps between each. Probably will make a lot of heat though, so I'm going to save up for parts for dry-cell once I know I'm comfortable with doing this in general.

Plus.... its fun! I'm just glad folks like ya'll will help me not blow myself up or burn out my car in the process!

[Helz_McFugly]

Friend of mine has some heavy wire for high-amp current he's going to help me wire up. He runs a dozen things in the dash of his car so he's used to that stuff I'd rather have a relay anyhow, because otherwise I'll forget to turn the blasted thing off at some point... I just know it!

I'm guessing a dry cell is the only way to keep from boiling water. I was going to use KOH as electrolyte. I don't have the money for a lot of good quality steel plates and stuff right now. Especially if I need to get these other things too.

Plus, I changed my cell, I've got -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- with the -'s ran from one plate off to the other. 3mm gaps between each. Probably will make a lot of heat though, so I'm going to save up for parts for dry-cell once I know I'm comfortable with doing this in general.

Plus.... its fun! I'm just glad folks like ya'll will help me not blow myself up or burn out my car in the process!

hmm. Im not sure thats going to work to well being that its a bath cell and theres alot of current loss, even on a dry e-lyzer -nnnnn+nnnnn- is the perfecet config. thats 6 cells at about 2vdc per cell when using around 13.5vdc from the alternator. but ya might try it before you take apart. I think you have to many N's. being its a wet cell and there is current loss I would have gone with
+nnnn-nnnn+ or if you have 16 plates +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-.
If you test it the way you have it now, youre going to have to mix your e-lytes VERY stong to get any production at all. but Ide take out 1 or 2 N's on each side.
I have my dry e-lyzer +nnnnnn- but I have 3/4 cup of KOH in 1/2 gallon of water. thats a pretty strong mix. Im thinking about taking on of my N's out when I get my PWM installed.

[Helz_McFugly]

I'd rather have a relay anyhow, because otherwise I'll forget to turn the blasted thing off at some point... I just know it!

oh yea, to avoid it being left on, use a hot wire that turns off when you turn your car off for the relay activation wire.

I have a toggle switch in my dash I can turn my system off with, the switches hot wire is ran to my fuse box. the fuse its wired to turns off when my key is off so it cant be left on.
and all my toggle switch wire and the wire from the toggle switch to the relay activation point is 20 guage wire. its doesnt take much to turn a relay on.
Hope that helps.

[jerrygoldsmith]

Helz is like, super helpful. Rocks. This site is so much better than any other I've been to.

Borg, I was on the watercar yahoo group (don't join btw, its just a big p!ssing contest there), and people were taking their wet-cells and wrapping them in shrink-wrap and electrical tape and stuff, just around the wide ends of the plates leaving the tops and bottoms open. They claimed that they got increased efficiency out of it that way.

I don't see how it could be as good as a dry cell, but if you are unable to spend the money on parts for a dry-cell then it can't hurt to try.

[Helz_McFugly]

thanks jerry.

and yes if you wrap your "wet cell" it does decrease current loss by getting rid of the edges of the plates on the sides. still not as efficient as a dry cell. alot of people use a giant piece of shrink wrap around the wet cells. But it will make taking your cell apart almost impossable, but yea, it works a little but its not worth doing any more because, mark my word, you will convert over to a dry cell sooner or later. dont waist your time.

[borgdrone]

thanks jerry.

and yes if you wrap your "wet cell" it does decrease current loss by getting rid of the edges of the plates on the sides. still not as efficient as a dry cell. alot of people use a giant piece of shrink wrap around the wet cells. But it will make taking your cell apart almost impossable, but yea, it works a little but its not worth doing any more because, mark my word, you will convert over to a dry cell sooner or later. dont waist your time.

I'm not throwing your wisdom to the wind, I just don't have the money for good quality steel plates for a Dry-Elec system This week I'm going to the junkyard and recycling center to try and find some steel plates for cheap.

Ok, I haven't measured my LPM yet.... but I wrapped it in some of that heat-shrink electrical tape, on sides top and bottom. I put slits on the bottom to let some water in when immersed, and some parts of the top I just left open.

I've had it on my 12v 7amp battery for 10 minutes and its not even remotely warm (cool as can be) and its broiling out bubbles like crazy. The wires aren't even warm, where previously I've had to take them off after about 3 minutes or I get nervous

[jerrygoldsmith]

Check the 'For Sale' section. They have a lot of plates for sale or info on where to get good ones.

Of course, you'll still end up paying over $100 for 8 plates most likely, shipping, etc.

I saw on there someone used metal cut from old trash cans. Though I couldn't tell you how to IDENTIFY what SS is 316L

If you can, start designing your drycell at least. Find out what you'll need so when you get the cash you can delve right into it. Use this time as a 'learning' period so you'll be more comfortable with the other one later on.

On another note, instead of shrink-tape you could also use some good quality tool-dip, and make a flat area to press all the edges onto, forming the dip inside the edges a few millimeters, covering the actual edges. Do this all the way around, then wrap your tape anyways just to keep it from being jarred loose, then poke your holes. You'll basically have a waxy seal around the whole thing.

Then again, this might be one of those things my wife refers to as "the stuff you make up in your head doesn't count"

[Helz_McFugly]

I'm not throwing your wisdom to the wind, I just don't have the money for good quality steel plates for a Dry-Elec system This week I'm going to the junkyard and recycling center to try and find some steel plates for cheap.

Ok, I haven't measured my LPM yet.... but I wrapped it in some of that heat-shrink electrical tape, on sides top and bottom. I put slits on the bottom to let some water in when immersed, and some parts of the top I just left open.

I've had it on my 12v 7amp battery for 10 minutes and its not even remotely warm (cool as can be) and its broiling out bubbles like crazy. The wires aren't even warm, where previously I've had to take them off after about 3 minutes or I get nervous

awesome, thats exactly what ya want. lots of bubbles. little heat.

are you still running it like this +nnnnnn- ?
got a pic or vid?