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Thread: TEGS - Thermoelectric Generators

  1. #1

    TEGS - Thermoelectric Generators

    I think a new thread is warranted on the subject of TEGS.
    I really have no idea of their worth but I'm sure a few of our more electronically minded members will be able to shed some light on their value.

    If they can recover some of the heat lost to produce enough electricity and use this to produce HHO it could possibly be worthwhile?

    http://www.ieverred.com/TEPGR.html

  2. #2
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    TEGs generally use devices called "Peltier Junctions". Basically, they require a temperature differential(one side hot, while one side is cool) to produce electron drift. This electron drift creates a voltage and current if attached to a load. They are generally used in reverse, where a current is supplied, and the device CREATES a temperature differential.

    However, PJ's are pretty expensive... And horribly inefficient when using them in the energy production side(<10% and usually on the order of about 4-5%). On top of that, they are expensive and bulky. Be prepared to pay at least $2/watt. Doing the math on that, an extra 100W is going to be at least $200, and that's just for the PJ's alone. 100W equates to about 8A, and that is assuming you already have a very hot surface to mount these to, and a fairly cool heat sinking material/system. Chances are, you're going to use about half the energy these things make(if not more) just on driving the cooling system. So, in reality, you're looking at about $4/Watt - best case scenario.

    Even if you had an extra 200W(which is pretty cool...) from these TEGs, is it really worth the $400 investment and up-keep? IMO, the technology/Seebeck effect is pretty 'cool', but not practical in this sort of thing. You're better off just using the power off the alternator. Richard was going on and on about MORE CURRENT = MORE HHO, which is true, but there IS a point of diminishing returns... Even if you could produce 100lpm, there is point where more HHO injection doesn't result in much more MPG.

    Regardless, these things are fun to play with and dream up ideas.

  3. #3
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    I was looking to buy one for camping just to play with. Maybe run a light or radio off of
    The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?
    www.hhounderground.com

  4. #4
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    I can only see using them on the exhaust system. Cant see how you could maintain A 150 degree differential on the 195 degree cooling system.

    I would like to find out more about them. Like how durable are they?

    Like Phil i cant see any return on investment happening. But maybe looking at it as something to play with it would be cool. Maybe slightly more practical than having a solar panel on your truck/car.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Talking

    hello everybody, i was just about to make the thread when i saw it LOL so ima just copy and paste the links over here if you dont mind.

    this is for Helz http://www.marlow.com/power-generators/

    this is a good read http://www.nextreme.com/pages/power_...ste_heat.shtml

    this is what im planning
    just use the hot water coming from your engine to the radiator, pass it trough your TEG system's hot side and for the cold side use a big trans cooler with fans, to circulate the cold side i will be using a pump that is connected to the back of the alternator (that way i wont be using power to drive a pump) i will post a pic of the alternator with the pump on it soon(i changed it on my work truck and i keep the old one to mod my present alternator)

    this is what BMW is doing, also look at the links on the side
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkP7v8yYivQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY0SAzs1LJw&feature=fvw

    here is where i got my idea to use the hot coolant
    http://www.espressomilkcooler.com/th...tor___teg_.htm

    i will edit this later and add more info

  6. #6
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Jacques View Post
    I can only see using them on the exhaust system. Cant see how you could maintain A 150 degree differential on the 195 degree cooling system.

    I would like to find out more about them. Like how durable are they?

    Like Phil i cant see any return on investment happening. But maybe looking at it as something to play with it would be cool. Maybe slightly more practical than having a solar panel on your truck/car.
    look at the link that Buster post in the first post, it will give you an idea about durability etc..

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philldpapill View Post
    TEGs generally use devices called "Peltier Junctions". Basically, they require a temperature differential(one side hot, while one side is cool) to produce electron drift. This electron drift creates a voltage and current if attached to a load. They are generally used in reverse, where a current is supplied, and the device CREATES a temperature differential.

    However, PJ's are pretty expensive... And horribly inefficient when using them in the energy production side(<10% and usually on the order of about 4-5%). On top of that, they are expensive and bulky. Be prepared to pay at least $2/watt. Doing the math on that, an extra 100W is going to be at least $200, and that's just for the PJ's alone. 100W equates to about 8A, and that is assuming you already have a very hot surface to mount these to, and a fairly cool heat sinking material/system. Chances are, you're going to use about half the energy these things make(if not more) just on driving the cooling system. So, in reality, you're looking at about $4/Watt - best case scenario.

    Even if you had an extra 200W(which is pretty cool...) from these TEGs, is it really worth the $400 investment and up-keep? IMO, the technology/Seebeck effect is pretty 'cool', but not practical in this sort of thing. You're better off just using the power off the alternator. Richard was going on and on about MORE CURRENT = MORE HHO, which is true, but there IS a point of diminishing returns... Even if you could produce 100lpm, there is point where more HHO injection doesn't result in much more MPG.

    Regardless, these things are fun to play with and dream up ideas.
    yes Phill i know they are expensive in the western side of the world, this is why i buy most if not all my stuff from china. in the USA you could get 12VDC@each AMP for about $4 but in China i found places that sell the same 12VDC@ each AMP for $1 or less!!!!!!!!!!!!! so USA price for a 12VDC@10AMPS=$40 to $50 but in China the same would cost $10 to $15!!!!!!!!! that is a very very big difference. dont take my word for it, look at the link Buster post then try to find a place in the big mighty USA to beat that price. just try to beat this price http://www.ieverred.com/TEPGR.html then i will post a lower one.

  8. #8
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    Yeah those prices look much better than what I saw in the past. $22 for a potential 30amps

    Richard, I dont see how a trans cooler with fan going to get it's temp any lower than the outside ambient temp. So you will have to use exhaust heat.

    The question is still how would you effectively dissipate enough heat for the cold side? radiator trans cooler with pump would work.
    Would normal computer type heat sinks work?
    What happens when the differential temp is 300 degrees is there such thing as too much differential temp?
    Can you give these things to much heat and melt wires...?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Jacques View Post
    Yeah those prices look much better than what I saw in the past. $22 for a potential 30amps

    Richard, I dont see how a trans cooler with fan going to get it's temp any lower than the outside ambient temp. So you will have to use exhaust heat.

    The question is still how would you effectively dissipate enough heat for the cold side? radiator trans cooler with pump would work.
    Would normal computer type heat sinks work?
    What happens when the differential temp is 300 degrees is there such thing as too much differential temp?
    Can you give these things to much heat and melt wires...?
    im planning on using cooling blocks like these http://www.espressomilkcooler.com/th...tor___teg_.htm
    and im modding my alternator to use it as a pump too and the hot side withh have copper blocks not aluminum. as for wires, im waiting for a quote from a few companies right now for custom TEGs 12VDC@10 to 20AMPS with the lowest AWG wires they can fit them with. as soon as i get my quote i will share

  10. #10
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