Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Toyota Diesel Prado Costa RIca O2 help?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9

    Toyota Diesel Prado Costa RIca O2 help?

    Hello
    I am new to the forum and am in costa rica , planning on running an 11 plate dry cell unit in my diesel prado with the 1kz-te engine , with research i cannot find an o2 sensor or map sensor . i have read about a chip for the ecu they sell in australia to boost hp. This chip modifies the signal to the injector pump to gain horsepower and claims that the 1kz-te engine does not have a closed loop o2 sensor to adjust their modifications made by their chip. i figure it would work the same with the addition of hho? may i be lucky to not have to make an EFIE or MAP adjustments?

    Also this engine has an aluminum head and with the added combustion from the hho i am a little afraid of damage.
    should i be worried of this ?
    I truly belive this will work but am still new to this.


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    You have to have a MAP sensor. Sometimes called a pressure sensor in diesels. If you want maximum gains you will have to lean the fuel delivery to match the volume of HHO you are injecting. Other wise you will have to control the amount of HHO for the stock setting and settle for smaller gains. Here is something that might help you. This might not be your engine but the sensors will be similar.

    http://samgor.ucoz.ru/_ld/0/6_Prado_3.0D4-D.pdf
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9
    Thank you

    Yes I have found that the turbo pressure sensor also measures the manifold absolute pressure.
    I am planning on adding a potentiometer on the signal wire circuit and a resistor on the ground as per the instructions of a simple map enhancer on the fuelsaver site.
    The way they say to adjust this to your car is to turn the pot until the idle is rough then slightly back off.??
    I was going to try measuring the signal voltage normally then adding the hho while running and take a measurement , then adjusting the signal voltage with the pot until it reads the normal voltage while the hho gas is in there.. I was thinking this would be more accurate ...
    Need to resource these electronic parts down here ..knew i should have hit up radio shack b4 i left the states!! lol

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California.
    Posts
    337

    Diesels do not need to be leaned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    You have to have a MAP sensor. Sometimes called a pressure sensor in diesels. If you want maximum gains you will have to lean the fuel delivery to match the volume of HHO you are injecting. Other wise you will have to control the amount of HHO for the stock setting and settle for smaller gains. Here is something that might help you. This might not be your engine but the sensors will be similar.

    http://samgor.ucoz.ru/_ld/0/6_Prado_3.0D4-D.pdf
    There is absolutely no need to play with your fuel delivery in a diesel. A diesel engine almost always runs lean.

    The addition of HHO affects diesel combustion differently than in a spark ignited engine. The combustion theory is different. The HHO effects are different. The controlling mechanisms are different than in a spark ignited engine.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9
    OK
    I will try without the adjustment to the MAP and see how it goes ..if I dont achieve my gains I will throw together the MAP enchancer circuit at the ECU
    then we will clearly have the answer

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    There is absolutely no need to play with your fuel delivery in a diesel. A diesel engine almost always runs lean.

    The addition of HHO affects diesel combustion differently than in a spark ignited engine. The combustion theory is different. The HHO effects are different. The controlling mechanisms are different than in a spark ignited engine.
    Reply With Quote
    Rusty, you are right and wrong. In my setup you can run much leaner and get much larger gains by leaning the diesel engine but this requires larger volumes of HHO and different amounts of HHO at different load ranges of the engine to get maximum gains. If you only have one given amount of HHO through all the ranges that is very small in most cases, if you consider the volume of air going through the engine, then you are right. Leaning would not be of much help and most likely loose HP resulting in lower fuel economy. One of the things HHO does to diesel engines with the small amounts is similar to what multiple injection does for the really efficient newer diesels. The newer VW has 5 injections in the compression stroke. I am not sure when the last injection is and it might be after top dead center. There is more than one way to skin this cat. It is amazing that these pre injections are raising the temperature of the air so with the final injection there is a better burn yet does not increase the engines operating temperature. It is obvious that when a diesel vehicle is under load like in first gear more HHO can be injected and when at highway speeds in top gear very little is needed. This is how my system works. The amount of leaning is small but adds up on commercial vehicles that run 24/7. I have leaned my Mercedes out and with the right set up results are, header temperatures are lower, there is more power and fuel economy is off the charts. When set up like that you can not run it without HHO!!! It is expensive to redo the pump when you want to make a change on mechanical injection systems like it has. It also requires other systems like water injection etc. This is where electronic injection has an advantage. You can just flip a switch and go form HHO to stock or make changes very easily. There is a lot more but I think you get the idea. The bottom line on the newer diesels that are so efficient is you have to be able to cut back on fuel, maintain HP, and keep the temperature down or you will not see significant gains. An old HHO user said many years ago, "cut back the diesel and replace it with HHO at the right ratio and you will be amazed". He is running 20 LPM in some of his big trucks and has been doing this for 4 or 5 years now. He is laughing all the way to the bank every year. I thank him for all the help he has given me. You can not do this with just messing with the MAP but need to take into consideration the IAT and CTS. All the sensors must be in agreement or you will see very small gains, none at all, worse mileage, or through a code. There are lots of new systems out there for diesels but I think most of them are smoke and mirrors.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California.
    Posts
    337

    You will have AN answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Costahho View Post
    OK
    I will try without the adjustment to the MAP and see how it goes ..if I dont achieve my gains I will throw together the MAP enchancer circuit at the ECU
    then we will clearly have the answer
    But you will not have THE answer. Without a deeper understanding of what you are doing, you will get A result, but not necessarily the result you seek.

    I am simply trying to keep you from wasting your time and resources pursuing a method I know does not work and has little bearing on diesel engines with HHO.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    340
    Go ahead and experiment, just don't short out the ecu! Report back with YOUR results. Good luck to all whom choose to seek knowledge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    By the way seek your help from those who have hands on experience with daily driven vehicles of their own that are diesel.
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California.
    Posts
    337
    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Rusty, you are right and wrong. In my setup you can run much leaner and get much larger gains by leaning the diesel engine but this requires larger volumes of HHO and different amounts of HHO at different load ranges of the engine to get maximum gains. If you only have one given amount of HHO through all the ranges that is very small in most cases, if you consider the volume of air going through the engine, then you are right. Leaning would not be of much help and most likely loose HP resulting in lower fuel economy. One of the things HHO does to diesel engines with the small amounts is similar to what multiple injection does for the really efficient newer diesels. The newer VW has 5 injections in the compression stroke. I am not sure when the last injection is and it might be after top dead center. There is more than one way to skin this cat. It is amazing that these pre injections are raising the temperature of the air so with the final injection there is a better burn yet does not increase the engines operating temperature. It is obvious that when a diesel vehicle is under load like in first gear more HHO can be injected and when at highway speeds in top gear very little is needed. This is how my system works. The amount of leaning is small but adds up on commercial vehicles that run 24/7. I have leaned my Mercedes out and with the right set up results are, header temperatures are lower, there is more power and fuel economy is off the charts. When set up like that you can not run it without HHO!!! It is expensive to redo the pump when you want to make a change on mechanical injection systems like it has. It also requires other systems like water injection etc. This is where electronic injection has an advantage. You can just flip a switch and go form HHO to stock or make changes very easily. There is a lot more but I think you get the idea. The bottom line on the newer diesels that are so efficient is you have to be able to cut back on fuel, maintain HP, and keep the temperature down or you will not see significant gains. An old HHO user said many years ago, "cut back the diesel and replace it with HHO at the right ratio and you will be amazed". He is running 20 LPM in some of his big trucks and has been doing this for 4 or 5 years now. He is laughing all the way to the bank every year. I thank him for all the help he has given me. You can not do this with just messing with the MAP but need to take into consideration the IAT and CTS. All the sensors must be in agreement or you will see very small gains, none at all, worse mileage, or through a code. There are lots of new systems out there for diesels but I think most of them are smoke and mirrors.


    This is a complex situation and your reply above just touches on it. Your quick discussion of multiple and pre-injection diesel systems shows your are just skimming tech articles.

    As I have stated in other posts, pre-injection diesel systems benefit greatly from the addition of HHO because the mix of a sub ignitable dose of diesel becomes conditioned by the breakdown of HHO to reactive sub species and the partial thermal decomposition of the diesel occurs. The added release of Hydrogen approaches the classical studies which add 4% hydrogen and above. Once you delve deeply into those studies, you will realize the bottom line is HEAT RELEASE and the attendant increase in pressure. As you approach and surpass the 4% hydrogen volume in the combustion chamber, you will see that there is a delay between the injection point and heat release caused by the addition of hydrogen. The discussion of what occurs at the injection flame front is complex and lengthy and is better described via graphics and not text. But the bottom line is, the heat release delay needs to be dealt with via injection timing. Fool with your IAT, your CTS, your MAP or even your AARP, it doesn't help unless it addresses your timing.

    Older Mercedes Benz Indirect Injection (ID) Diesels can still see significant gains with the addition of HHO even though it may be a mechanical or electro-mechanical injection pump (IP). Yes, I cheat by re-machining the IP mounting collar to accept an electro-mechanical actuator that allows me to add or subtract from the standard mechanical advance. This along with a variable output HHO unit provides control over most of the light load and cruise load ranges in which we drive and derive our most useful efficiency gains. I use the simple and common 16F84 Micro-controller as my core and use a simple 3D map to process the input of air flow (rpm), load request (resistive wire wound element as a throttle position sensor) and boost pressure to adjust in simple step wise fashion, the timing and HHO flow. Depending where in the map you find yourself, we have measured efficiency gains of as little as 7%( full throttle) and as much as 80% ( just off idle, throttle tip in) using Brake Specific Fuel Consumption as our measure (BSFC).

    Even highly efficient modern 3, 5 and 7 injection pulse hi-pressure common rail direct injection (DI) diesels can see as much as 30% decrease in BSFC at specific map points with the addition of HHO and injection timing being the only variable change. At least this is the case with the Mercedes Trucks we have tested on.

    20 standard liters per minute (SLPM) applied to a 14 Liter Class 8 Diesel does net efficiency returns. That is a small amount of HHO in comparison to the engine air flow needs. But it shows you the advantage diesels have in utilizing Hydrogen augmentation. If you can create the same conditions in a spark ignited gasoline engine, you can see tremendous gains. This also hints on how simple Smack Type generators can produce significant gains while complex mutli-plate generators can see little to none.

    Oh, and just a quick question on your Mercedes Benz Diesel. What year is it. What model, engine and what IP model? And HOW did you LEAN it?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    340
    SO much could be said here, but I'll stick to quick and simple.

    Timing will be your best alternative for gains, but of course I'm not into trying to "fool" the computer when you can let it work with you. Diesel is not the same as gasoline, this is for sure, but there are many of the same characteristics with compression and HHO. If it gets to complicated to handle with the fine details just keep it simple in your head. Look for the easy explanations that work.
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •