Question from a new guy

[taxi1]

Hello everyone ,

I am a new and want to ask something.
I am planing to buy and put that one one my car:
http://www.dc-hybrids.com/product-p/102.htm

Do you think is good idea ? Is there in uk legal requirement for that?

My car is vauxhal vectra 2003, 2.0 dti.

Thank you

p.s. The car is a taxi.

[Helz_McFugly]

The generators they make are way inefficient. they run 5 cell stacks. you should never run less then 6 cell stacks in a dry cell or youll be making heat and waisting energy. 7 cell stacks are the best when your running it on your alternators 13.8vdc.
The electronics (EFIE) they sell Ive seen for some times now, and they seem to work pretty good. If you do buy one, get the one with 21 plates and you can reconfigure it to be very efficient. they have the plates setup to make it look like youre getting alot of gas when in reallity more then half of what is coming out is steam and expanded gas. you can reconfigure the 21 plate cell like this +nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn- and it will run great, they have it like this +nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+ and it will run hot and waist alot of energy with only 5 cells in each stack.
$250 for a 21 plate 6x6 reactor isnt bad at all. youll be taking 2 plates out and making it a 19 plate reactor if you want it to run right.
good luck

[b1jetmech]

Helz,

Running 6 cell requires a lot of KOH right? Or, I mean about 20% weight solution?

Chase

[H2OPWR]

Helz,

Running 6 cell requires a lot of KOH right? Or, I mean about 20% weight solution?

Chase

I will put in my 2 cents worth here. Most folks like to control their amp draw by using less KOH. I am totally opposed to that theory. That is controlling your output by increasing the resistance in your cell. While running high voltage per gap and low KOH may seem like a simple solution it is simply controlling current (amps) draw by increasing resistance. The voltage is burned up along with current by resistance and creates it's only possible by product HEAT. Also just increasing the KOH and controlling the amp draw with a PWM in my opinion is also flawed. You are still over volting your device and wasting watts while the PWM is on. IMO the correct way is to make your cell is with the lowest resistance possible. Using 28 to 33% KOH by weight dramatically lowers the resistance of the water. Your water is the biggest resistor in your cell. Attack it first. Then control the current with voltage. Current makes ALL the HHO. Voltage makes nothing. It only pushes the current through the device. The only way to feasably control the voltage per gap is to add more neutral plates. In an automotive application 5 neutrals (6 gaps) should be the fewest anyone considers. If your vehicle alternator puts out between 13.8 and 14 volts I would even run 6 neutrals and create a seven gap cell. With 28 to 33% KOH a 13.8 to 14 volt automotive alternator should be your most effecient configuration. Most folks abondon that concept because they test the cell on a bench with a car battery at somewhere around 12.5 to 12.7 volts. That will not work with a 7 gap cell. Then folks add a small 10 amp charger to the battery and measure 13.5 to 14 volts. They then try that but the cell draws 25 or 30 amps. That still is drawing the voltage down too low to produce good test results. The way most of us test our cells we simply can not duplicate the results our vehicle will provide. Just remember unless you have a high amp alternator that a cell drawing 30+ amps will draw down your vehicles charging system to a lower voltage as well. No matter what anyone wants to think HHO is already an ineffecient technology. Controlling the amp draw by making it more ineffecent simply goes against everything I have learned. CAUTION 28 TO 33% KOH MUST BE HANDLED WITH EXTREME CAUTION. IT IS VERY DANGEROUS. It can cause blindness and will leave you with blisters that will take weeks to heal. Been there done that.

[redrat100]

Taxi, I agree with Helz, for the price its a good cell to start with but will take some alteration to make it better.

...IMO the correct way is to make your cell is with the lowest resistance possible... Then control the current with voltage...

Larry, I also agree with you, make your cells as efficient as possible. Would you mind explaining? Not being much of an electrical guy, I need to ask, how? If my alternator puts out 13.8 volts and I want to drop it down to 6 volts or so, where would I find a resistor that can handle around 100 watts or so? Or is there a better way to drop the voltage down?

[b1jetmech]

Thanks Larry.

KOH solution/electrolyte is the least experienced factor I have in all of this. I built some cells but haven't educated myself too much on the importance of electrolyte solutions.

I'm building this "trucker" cell for a customer and reconfiguring it with 5 neutrals.

My biggest concern for using so much KOH is the safety factor that the customer could be at risk with. I hate to face a law suite...know what I mean???

Thanks again for your commentary.

Chase

[Helz_McFugly]

I will put in my 2 cents worth here. Most folks like to control their amp draw by using less KOH. I am totally opposed to that theory. That is controlling your output by increasing the resistance in your cell. While running high voltage per gap and low KOH may seem like a simple solution it is simply controlling current (amps) draw by increasing resistance. The voltage is burned up along with current by resistance and creates it's only possible by product HEAT. Also just increasing the KOH and controlling the amp draw with a PWM in my opinion is also flawed. You are still over volting your device and wasting watts while the PWM is on. IMO the correct way is to make your cell is with the lowest resistance possible. Using 28 to 33% KOH by weight dramatically lowers the resistance of the water. Your water is the biggest resistor in your cell. Attack it first. Then control the current with voltage. Current makes ALL the HHO. Voltage makes nothing. It only pushes the current through the device. The only way to feasably control the voltage per gap is to add more neutral plates. In an automotive application 5 neutrals (6 gaps) should be the fewest anyone considers. If your vehicle alternator puts out between 13.8 and 14 volts I would even run 6 neutrals and create a seven gap cell. With 28 to 33% KOH a 13.8 to 14 volt automotive alternator should be your most effecient configuration. Most folks abondon that concept because they test the cell on a bench with a car battery at somewhere around 12.5 to 12.7 volts. That will not work with a 7 gap cell. Then folks add a small 10 amp charger to the battery and measure 13.5 to 14 volts. They then try that but the cell draws 25 or 30 amps. That still is drawing the voltage down too low to produce good test results. The way most of us test our cells we simply can not duplicate the results our vehicle will provide. Just remember unless you have a high amp alternator that a cell drawing 30+ amps will draw down your vehicles charging system to a lower voltage as well. No matter what anyone wants to think HHO is already an ineffecient technology. Controlling the amp draw by making it more ineffecent simply goes against everything I have learned. CAUTION 28 TO 33% KOH MUST BE HANDLED WITH EXTREME CAUTION. IT IS VERY DANGEROUS. It can cause blindness and will leave you with blisters that will take weeks to heal. Been there done that.

I totally agree with you Lary. it gets old trying to tell everyone who asks why. No affence taxi1. please dont take this the wrong way, we are hear to help but this information needs to be a sticky or maybe Ill start a site thats kind of like a "how to" for HHO with the best way to do things, the easiest ways, and the alternitives such as adjusting amps with e-lyte mixture. I have alot of webspace to do this so i guess I need to stop yappin and jsut do it. I like to help people so more people know the most efficient way to do things, but typing a long explanation like you jsut did, and ive done so any times, would be much easier if you could just post a link to such data. Ill get to work on it this tomorrow. starting with how to configure cells and why NOT to bench test with a car battery. you really need 13.0vdc/120amps to test with. my car has a 160 amp alternator which I love. but that was an add on.

[Philldpapill]

I dunno about that site... I've noticed quite a few things that they hype, and flat out over "spin"... Notice their PWM page:
http://www.dc-hybrids.com/category-s/17.htm

At the bottom it goes into a bunch of BS about how THEIR PWM does this and that... noteably how it is "forming a higher number of Orthohydrogen and Parahydrogen molecules." Whooooaaaaa - sounds super duper high tech!

Orthohydrogen and Parahydrogen are just isomers of regular old H2. In nature, they occur in a ratio of 75% Ortho("same electron spin"), and 25% Parahydrogen("different electron spin"). Basically what that means, is that ortho has both of it's electrons, from each hydrogen atom, with the same spin, while Para has opposite spins. It really means absolutely zero. The reason they are in 75% and 25% is basic probability... If you throw two coins up in the air, you have a 75% chance that they will both land with the SAME face up, but 25% of the time they will have different faces up. Try it.


Anyway, this is extremely off topic, but that site you referenced looks a bit like a scam site, trying to lure in new people that don't know too much about HHO. On top of their blatent BS, the prices are insane... my $0.02 for what it's worth.


EDIT: Larry, I agree with 100% of your post. I have never understood why people do that with the electrolyte. It's like controlling the speed of your car by mashing down on the gas, and applying pressure to the break to keep from going 120mph... And then they complain that their cell is getting hot! Yeah, no **** Sherlock... LOL

[H2OPWR]

I dunno about that site... I've noticed quite a few things that they hype, and flat out over "spin"... Notice their PWM page:
http://www.dc-hybrids.com/category-s/17.htm

At the bottom it goes into a bunch of BS about how THEIR PWM does this and that... noteably how it is "forming a higher number of Orthohydrogen and Parahydrogen molecules." Whooooaaaaa - sounds super duper high tech!

Orthohydrogen and Parahydrogen are just isomers of regular old H2. In nature, they occur in a ratio of 75% Ortho("same electron spin"), and 25% Parahydrogen("different electron spin"). Basically what that means, is that ortho has both of it's electrons, from each hydrogen atom, with the same spin, while Para has opposite spins. It really means absolutely zero. The reason they are in 75% and 25% is basic probability... If you throw two coins up in the air, you have a 75% chance that they will both land with the SAME face up, but 25% of the time they will have different faces up. Try it.


Anyway, this is extremely off topic, but that site you referenced looks a bit like a scam site, trying to lure in new people that don't know too much about HHO. On top of their blatent BS, the prices are insane... my $0.02 for what it's worth.


EDIT: Larry, I agree with 100% of your post. I have never understood why people do that with the electrolyte. It's like controlling the speed of your car by mashing down on the gas, and applying pressure to the break to keep from going 120mph... And then they complain that their cell is getting hot! Yeah, no **** Sherlock... LOL

You are correct, forget that ortho para BSSSSS. You add an electron to a water molocule. It becomes imbalanced and weak. It then is attracted to the magnetic forces of the positive and negative plates and splits into gas. It is completely F****ing as simple as that. IT IS AN INEFFECIENT PROCESS. Making it less effecient to control amp draw is as crazy as taking a hammer and smashing your toe so it will hurt so bad that you will forget about your head hurting from trying to get your amp draw down by increasing the cells resistance.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

Thanks Larry.

KOH solution/electrolyte is the least experienced factor I have in all of this. I built some cells but haven't educated myself too much on the importance of electrolyte solutions.

I'm building this "trucker" cell for a customer and reconfiguring it with 5 neutrals.

My biggest concern for using so much KOH is the safety factor that the customer could be at risk with. I hate to face a law suite...know what I mean???

Thanks again for your commentary.

Chase

Chase, Folks change car batteries all the time. They are full of a very dangerous acid. We fill our cars up with gasiline every day. Get some in your eyes and see what happens. We drive our cars at 65 MPH every day passing cars going the other way at 65 MPH every day. One mess up and we die. We could only drive at 1 MPH and we would face no danger but that would be an ineffecient waste of our time. The same goes for our devices. We could only mix a very small amount of KOH in the water then add some flavoring and drink it like koolaid but why would we do that. My obvious point is that every day we face things that could harm us but we do them because we choose to. Anything else would seem crazy. Why should we view this technology any differently?

Larry