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Thread: Fuel injector signal as controler, some EE help please?

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    Couldn’t you use the throttle position sensor to control your PMW? It is easy to mount if the car does not have one and cheap. Most newer cars have them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myoldyourgold View Post
    Couldn’t you use the throttle position sensor to control your PMW? It is easy to mount if the car does not have one and cheap. Most newer cars have them.
    That is an option, but would require interpreting the TPS's (throttle position sensor) voltage. You could also use a combination or rpm and the MAP signal. The great advantage to the fuel injector pulse, is that it is exactly the fuel used.
    One example of an advantage:
    In most newer cars there is a DFCO mode (deceleration fuel cut off), where the injectors don't get a signal at all. With a TPS set up you'd be giving it whatever you set as your idle amperage, rather than nothing.
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

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    There are enough problems in getting a reasonable amount of HHO in the first place without a huge battery draw. This has to be done first before the volume is reduced to match the RPM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedore View Post
    There are enough problems in getting a reasonable amount of HHO in the first place without a huge battery draw. This has to be done first before the volume is reduced to match the RPM.
    I'm not talking about RPM's, I'm talking about fuel use. The idea of this would reduce electric draw for low fuel use, and increase proportionally for higher.
    I=V/R so R=V/I and V=I*R
    P=V*I
    (I=Amps, V=volts, P= power in watts, R=resistance in ohms)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
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    45

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    Interesting subject, and one that I've been thinking about as well.
    One of the problems that I think may be an issue is that the lag between when the current is varied, to the amount of gas being produced. Injection systems are pretty much instant in that the fuel delivery can change from one rev to the next, but HHO gas delivery takes a second or two to crank up - or down - a bit like turbo lag I guess.
    One way to over come this is to store a small amount of it in a vessel, so that it can be released exactly when required, but doing this is pretty risky, so that's not going to work...
    I'm not at all sure about the electronics of engine systems, but learning fast.

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    I know this is an old post, but injectors and injector wiring are finely tuned based on resistance through the ECM. They are not based only on voltage like a lot of other sensors. Think of electronic injectors as being 'on' or hot all the time on one end. The wire goes through the computer where it receives pulses of resistance via intermittent grounding signals from the 12v (pulse resistance in ohms).

    When you so much as splice or cut and solder a finely tuned resistance, it throws the entire injector out of balance, not worth risking it. When you add an entire device on the end of the wire, you can bet your injector is going to have a big problem. Some aftermarket injector systems have much stronger pulses and less tedious ohm resistance. These would be add-ons you would use for example with boost in a turbo engine, or with rpm or something for nitrous.

    Use an rpm based controller for this coming off the tach wire or ignition coil ground...or just use the throttle position sensor voltage or a mechanical throttle switch type device

    edit- Its like you're turning your christmas lights on and off real fast at different speeds, you can't run another device off of an intermittent signal, and it would blow the xmas lights if you used to much.
    Last edited by chevymike; 02-14-2011 at 08:42 AM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Mississauga, ON, Canada
    Posts
    7

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    One way to get the signal you need from the injector is to use an opto isolator...that is the easy part.

    This would only load the circuit to the tune of 0.010 to 0.015 A...Injector drive would not even notice.

    place that part of the circuit as close the the injector lines as possible.

    The output of this should go through shielded lines to your HHO circuitry

    The opto should be a fast one...10MHz or better.

    This will get you the information you need of a fuel proportional signal.

    However,

    The overall duty cycle of the injectors will never get to 100%.

    You would need a circuit to translate the injector maximum duty cycle to 100%

    so little time

    so many ideas

    good luck

  8. #18

    Default Been there done that.....

    Tried the injector pulse in a few ways. Caused misfiring at various levels. So i went to the coil signal (same pulse signal with no adverse affect). I also learned one awesome trick! The injector signal will increase if the pcm or ecm is trying to give more fuel to the engine, so to compensate for the problem of getting too much fuel, i built a controller to decrease voltage to my fuel pump. In essence reducing the fuel getting to the engine so i can actually idle on hho, when i turn the pump off. I have a digital voltage meter on each side of my controller for a positive voltage/off reading. I used a phone cord and a relay bypass i built and a modified dimmer as the controller.
    Also when the ecm or pcm is trying to add fuel it will also close the iac or iav to reduce the amount of air. So with several check valves and lines to my intake so as the HHO will be pulled in on both sides of my throttle this at the same rate i get amazing results. NO efie, NO map or maf tampering! This and my own designed generator(HHO), is where i(we) were able to get 129 miles from 1 (one) gal. of gas. Its not plug and play, its play and play and play.
    I'm still working on some ideas and will keep going, so I'll keep reading and slowly writing.
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

  9. #19

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    Hey James,

    I've been reading some of your post and you seem to have a good handle on HHO and modern engine systems. Can you give us a detailed overview of your installs, mods, results and cell? Maybe a video or some pictures too.

    Maybe a thread in general of your projects. I think it would be very helpful. You have got some incredible results.
    When you're one step ahead of the crowd you're a genius.
    When you're two steps ahead, you're a crackpot."

  10. #20

    Default Currently

    Working on the new setup i have. Running my old cell out of a factory gas tank, pump, filter from a Ford Focus. Using it to force feed my cell. I'm working on the heating of the water to near steam state, prior to the cell. Then cooling it down for return to the tank, as the HHO is separated and contained then Ionized at the intake. I have a theory that i don't need to boost the pressure so much as that i need less stable H2 at detention. Stanley Meyers wasn't a complete crackpot, he had something !?!?!
    Its done right or its not done !
    Hail HHO.

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