Please help me fix my cell.

[astrocady]

I have a set of S&K dry cells that don't work worth a crap. I measured only .4 LPM from both cells, using the bottle-in-water method. That's only .2LMP each -- far from the .8 to 1.0 lpm per cell I expected. The electrolyte gets hot with lots of foam. This was at 13.5v and 25 amps with a duty cycle of 80% through a PWM. Electrolyte was potassium carbonate, one gram to one ounce or water.

The cell arrangement was...
n-nnnn+n and the left hand 3 n plates are electrically bonded to each other and the right hand 6n plates are electrically bonded to each other.

From reading this forum, I learned that having 5 neutral plates between + and - is better than 4 neutrals.

I have no idea what the neutrals on each end do -- any thoughts?

Anyway, I took the cells apart and swapped the two end plates so I now have n-nnnnn+. I didn't know what to do about electrically bonding the neutral plates, as I haven't read anything here about that, so I left them as they were -- the left 3 are electrically connected to one another and the right 3 are electrically connected to one another.

Also after reading this forum, I decided my electrolyte concentration may be too weak, so I increased it to 2 grams per ounce of water.

I just completed my first tests. My results were .67 lpm for the two cells, so I saw an increase, but not as much as I'd hoped. This test was also at 13.5v and 25 amps, but the duty cycle of the PWM had reduced to 50% (from the higher electrolyte concentration I presume). I have not run this setup long enough to know yet about heat or foam.

Since I hadn't read anything about electrically connecting the neutral plates, I started wondering about this. It was easy to jumper from the left bank to the right bank, so I tried this, making all the neutral plates electricaly connected. This REDUCED the output to .58 lpm. So now I'm wondering if they should be connected at all?

What should I do?

Thanks,
AstroCady

[Helz_McFugly]

I have no idea what the neutrals on each end do

pretty sure they do nothing. Iv never seen that before

how big are the plates?
link to where you got it?
got any pictures of it?

[astrocady]

The cell plates are round, but I didn't measure the inside of the gasket when I had them appart. I think the inside measurement is about 5, maybe 5.5 inches in diameter?? I didn't take any pix of it apart.

Here is a link to a page on S&K's website that shows the cells I have. http://www.skhhofuelsystems.com/photo3.html

The cells were new when I get them, but I got them through a series of trades.

What about electically connecting the neutral plates???

[Helz_McFugly]

I would take them apart and make them -nnnnnn+
at 13.8 vdc. that would be 1.97vdc per cell. 7 cell stacks are very efficient. we have been testing up to 9 cell stack and getting very good results. follow that link in my signature

[astrocady]

Thanks for your help, Helz. I measured the inside of the gasket and it is 4.5". So i my math is right, that would be a little over 15 sqaure inches. I've read somewhere that the current should be .5 amps per square in. So that would be 7.5 amps. Is that per plate or for the entire cell?? I turned my amps down from 25 to 15 for my 2 cell system tonight and the output seemed to really drop off (only visualy, didn't do measurement). Then again, how much of the "gas" I was seeing and measuring at 25 amps was realy HHO and how much was steam? Maybe i'm really producing the same amount of HHO at 15 amps as I was at 25, but with a lot less steam so it looks like less bubbles???

Still confused about whether there should be jumpers attached to the neutral plates to electrically connect them to one another.

[lhazleton]

The amp draw would be for the entire reactor. Connecting the neutrals in any way is just rediculous. The 'neutral' plates, as everyone calls them, are actually 'bi-polar', and can't be connected in any way. Your reactor's extra N plates are a mistery. They couldn't serve any purpose at all. Like Helz said, reconfigure it to +NNNNNN-.

[astrocady]

Thanks lhazleton. That what I figured. I reconfigured them last night and will reinstall this weekend. Will post my results.

[oicu812]

The amp draw would be for the entire reactor. Connecting the neutrals in any way is just rediculous. The 'neutral' plates, as everyone calls them, are actually 'bi-polar', and can't be connected in any way. Your reactor's extra N plates are a mistery. They couldn't serve any purpose at all. Like Helz said, reconfigure it to +NNNNNN-.

how true! I wish we could get away from calling them neutral plates and switch to bi-polar plates

[lhazleton]

I've tried that configuration and when I submerfge them in a bath of solution the entire bottle would turn in a white cloud. but when I enclosed them in a dry cell set up and run the same solution mix the output barely keep my torch alive and the terminals, they get hot fast.

What is your KOH percentage? For a dry cell Reactor to perform correctly, you need at least 5 Bi-Polar plates per cell and 25-28% KOH e/lyte.

[astrocady]

UPDATE

I rebuilt my cells. They are now +nnnnnn- with the neutral 9or bi-polar) plate not connect to anything.

When I reinstalled them into my car and fired it up, I found out why S&K had the neutral plates connected to one another. Because the cell didn't work otherwise. The LCD display for my PWM just said "no load detected, check connections." Finally, out of desparation, I hooked some jumpers between the neutral plates and low and behold they started pumping. If I unhooked the jumpers, the production stopped and the amps dropped to zero.

I played around with the jumpers some, and I found that when I start with the neutrals all connected together, and with my constant current PWM set at 26 amps (13 amps per cell), my duty cycle was about 50%. As I unhooked jumpers, the duty cycle would increase until it reached the maximum (I had that set at 85%), then the amps would start to fall off until they finally reached zero.

So I began to wonder if my electrolyte might not have enough conductivity. I am using patasium carbonate. At first I was using 1 gram per liquid ounce of water as recommended. But about a month ago I increased the strength because my duty cycle was so high (75%) to about 2 grams per liquid ounce.

Today I increased it to 3 grams per liquid ounce, and after doing that my duty cycle, with all neutrals jumpered, droped to 42% (still at 26 amps). With all the jumpers removed, it was at its maximum duty cycle of 85% with amps at 4 and bubble of HHO every once in a while.

I have some KOH, and had planned on switching to it, but deciced not to because it is so much more corrosive. My system in installed in the trunk of my car, and everytime I change cells some electrolyte always leaks. I'm afraid the KOH would rust out the trunk in no time. Of course, if the cells worked properly I'd have no reason to unhook them so I shouldn't have t o worry about spills. Still... it seems like pretty nasty stuff.

what do y'all think?