Separation / Storage of Hydrogen

[22350]

1. I think the 30% number you are refering to is "H2 to O2" (not air).
So air is 21% O2. This will help a little.

2. Do you have a link to the 1000CC engine running on 5lpm? I think you'll find a VE thing going on with that.

Actally, the guy is saying that it really took him 15LPM. I didn't see that he was doing something else to get it down to 5LPM.

Regarding the 30%. That is the stoichiometric fuel air mixture for Hydrogen in a internal combustion engine.

I think gas is 14%.

It has nothing to do with HHO. If I split the H off, it would take that much H to be at the correct fuel air mixture.

[22350]

I can not remember the Youtube users name but there is a video out there where the person was running a Geo Metro (1000 cc). His claim was that he was running it on 5 lpm HHO. He did quite the demonstration and had many beleiving him. It was a total scam. Later he admitted that he had made an error in his calculations because he had HHO pressurized and had not taken that into count. He the went on to run the engine on HHO again. This time I beleive that he claimed around 15 LPM. Both were total scam's. He is selling devices and figured running an engine off one of his devices would sell more.

Just another BS story that makes all look like snake oil salesmen,

Larry

Yea, he was running through a gas filled bubbler. I am really trying to wrap my head around how much HHO it will take to run a 150cc engine, up to 6000 rpms.

If you go by the stoichiometric mixture, it is going to take 50 LPM just to idle.

I have a hard time believing that.

[Owen_]

It's a complicated thing figure out. If your just using HHO w/out air then you have a very powerful fuel. Nitrogen fills up most of your engines cylinders when your burning gasoline. If you look at simply the potential energy of H vs. gasoline, I don't know those # off hand, I'd have to look them up, and then figure out what it takes to run the engine in question on as far as gasoline consumption.

[22350]

you have to use a higher ratio of hydrogen, that drives down the possible power output of a internal combustion engine, to 85% power of gas. If you do direct injection, you can actually get more out of a hydrogen engine vs. gas.

I guess I am never going to know how much of this gas it takes, until I plug this engine on to a HHO generator and try to run it.

In the last two years I have not been able to find one person who can actually tell me what it takes to run an ICE.

Bob told me once that he had a 650 two stroke running on 18 LPM. That puts my 150 at just over 4 LPM. But wait! the two stroke has twice as many power strokes.

Who knows? We will be done eliminating our waste spark next week and we have a cell that makes over 3 LPM. We will connect it through a proper LP carb and see once and for all what we need.

[H2OPWR]

Yea, he was running through a gas filled bubbler. I am really trying to wrap my head around how much HHO it will take to run a 150cc engine, up to 6000 rpms.

If you go by the stoichiometric mixture, it is going to take 50 LPM just to idle.

I have a hard time believing that.

I have talked to many folks alot that have run engines off just HHO. The top three that I know of are BruteForceEngineering, D3ADP001, and SmartScarecrow. I have had many many conversations with them. I have an 8KW Genset that is powered by a Subaru 404CC engine. They all say that to idle one it will take about 10 LPM per 100CC of engine size. That number should decrease slightly as the engine size goes up. That is their opinion based on experience. Also you can not run it off pure HHO. You must mix in at least 75 to 80% atmosphere with the HHO.

As soon as it warms up I am going to do some tests boosting the gasoline on mine with HHO. Down the road I want to run it off HHO only. I really want to know just how much additional power it will take to run the Gen Set than the Gen Set will produce. Until now it is all speculation.

To do that I will need to make a 6X6 Nickel cell that has around 60 plates. From my tests so far with my current cell I should be able to push that to around 50 LPM if done correctly maybe more.

Larry

[22350]

I have talked to many folks alot that have run engines off just HHO. The top three that I know of are BruteForceEngineering, D3ADP001, and SmartScarecrow. I have had many many conversations with them. I have an 8KW Genset that is powered by a Subaru 404CC engine. They all say that to idle one it will take about 10 LPM per 100CC of engine size. That number should decrease slightly as the engine size goes up. That is their opinion based on experience. Also you can not run it off pure HHO. You must mix in at least 75 to 80% atmosphere with the HHO.

As soon as it warms up I am going to do some tests boosting the gasoline on mine with HHO. Down the road I want to run it off HHO only. I really want to know just how much additional power it will take to run the Gen Set than the Gen Set will produce. Until now it is all speculation.

To do that I will need to make a 6X6 Nickel cell that has around 60 plates. From my tests so far with my current cell I should be able to push that to around 50 LPM if done correctly maybe more.

Larry

I guess my question is: Have these guys actually used any sort of carburetor?

I was looking at smartscarcrow's generator and he was dumping it in the air-box.

Everyone I see, short of the guy with the geo metro is just dumping into the air-box, without any sort of metering.

[22350]

Another thing to note is that the amount of hydroxy required to run an engine drops dramatically, when you have a hemispherical combustion chamber.

Bob says that it requires 1/3 the amount with the hemispherical head.

[H2OPWR]

I guess my question is: Have these guys actually used any sort of carburetor?

I was looking at smartscarcrow's generator and he was dumping it in the air-box.

Everyone I see, short of the guy with the geo metro is just dumping into the air-box, without any sort of metering.

I agree totally that their method was very crude at best. I have yet to see anyone use an actual vapor carb. The guy with the Geo did but he is scamming everyone by leading them to beleive that 5 LPM would idle that engine. When I am ready to try mine totally on HHO I will use a vapor carb and control the cell with pressure switches in the resevoir.

Larry

[22350]

I agree totally that their method was very crude at best. I have yet to see anyone use an actual vapor carb. The guy with the Geo did but he is scamming everyone by leading them to beleive that 5 LPM would idle that engine. When I am ready to try mine totally on HHO I will use a vapor carb and control the cell with pressure switches in the resevoir.

Larry

I think this is why we never get a solid baseline on how much HHO it takes to operate an engine.

On our first run, we used a venture body, bolted on to the front of the throttle body. Feeding that was a low pressure regulator, with a high pressure regulator feeding that from upstream. In addition, there was an idle feed into the intake manifold.

This worked (badly) for LP. It was incorrect for the application. For hydroxy, I think it would have worked too, except we had a flashback which destroyed the regulators.

We also had a problem with the 4 retail electrolysis units, which didn't make a half a liter between all of them. The unit we had before those was a Paul Zigouras unit. Don't get me started on that.

Now we have our little test unit, which I know will make 3 LPM. We also have a proper LP carburetor, rather than the LP venture ring.

Next week, when the waste spark is gone, I think we might give it another try. Maybe we can get the idle requirements with the 3 LPM unit.

[Roland Jacques]

1. I think the 30% number you are refering to is "H2 to O2" (not air).
So air is 21% O2. This will help a little.

Ooops my mistake, your right with your ratios. Between my disleksia and hurrying = mixing numbers, Sorry